Summer Games Challenge 2016

[Sarge]

I think it depends on how you measure "hard". If it's by number of deaths, then yes, they're hard. But then, they're actually designed around the idea that you're going to die a lot, which perversely makes it easy? Sort of?

Most modern games don't require cautious, well-executed play for long stretches. That's what I get from the Souls games, at least from the brief time I've played. It can also be a bit like Ys or MMOs or whatnot, where you stumble into areas where you're just not prepared, which is the other part of the equation.

I'm not a KF/Souls expert, but I'm not sure that it's necessarily fair to call them "easy", either.

[prfsnl_gmr]

Most modern games don't require cautious, well-executed play for long stretches. That's what I get from the Souls games, at least from the brief time I've played.

Good point. They do require cautious play - "Shields Up!" - but I tend to play both RPGs and third-person action games pretty cautiously anyway.

From what I have read so far, it sounds like Shadow Tower plays very similarly to Demon's Souls. (But, I suspect, that the enemies in Demon's Souls move much, much faster in response to the fact that Demon's Souls is played from a third-person perspective and controls like a dream.)

[ElkinFencer10]

See, that's my problem - I Leeroy Jenkins everything.

[Xeogred]

Also I can't speak for Dark Souls yet, I haven't played it. But I'll tell you what, when I do play the Souls games... Demon's Souls and Dark Souls better break my precious pink ass in half, because if they are easier than the King's Fields and Shadow Towers, than I will never let all you pansies live it down.

Hopefully you're just being kind of snarky and joking, otherwise no matter how you cut it approaching anything with this kind of attitude is a recipe for disappointment. I mean maybe you're sick of hearing about them in general and I know some people avoiding them solely because of that, but that's lame as hell. They're are just simply well made quality games and that's all you need to know.

They're challenging but completely doable. What this world doesn't have nowadays is patience. That's probably the greatest weakness to anyone who struggles too much with these.

[laurenhiya21]

You're making me want to play Shadow Tower, but I'm awful at really difficult games so I doubt I would like it much.

I honestly believe you could handle Shadow Tower, I've seen you beat some pretty tough games.

Huh, really? I don't remember beating anything pretty tough... then again, my memory is pretty bad

Well if you think I could take it, I might emulate it sometime then (probably after I get out of school for the summer). Getting PSN funds is really annoying for me so it's a much safer option.

[Exhuminator]

They're are just simply well made quality games and that's all you need to know.

Nah, I need to know more than that. I need to know if they live up to their reputation.

Listen bud, they're From Software games, so I don't doubt the quality.

What I want to know is honestly how hard these Souls games are, versus the original From Software dungeon crawlers. That's part of the reason why I've taken the time to pay my dues, and go back to play From Software's original dungeon crawlers from the very beginning. To put up with the crusty technology and find the beauty beneath. That way I'll actually have a proper frame of reference when I do play the successor Souls games, insofar as if they are truly difficult in comparison. Has From Software always made hard dungeon crawlers from PS1-PS4? Or are the Souls games actually way harder? Or are the Souls games actually easier than the old KF and ST games? The only way to know the truth is to play and beat them all myself. And I will do it.

They're challenging but completely doable. What this world doesn't have nowadays is patience. That's probably the greatest weakness to anyone who struggles too much with these.

You have to understand for years now, for YEARS, all I've ever heard is how insanely difficult these Souls games are supposed to be. Yet 99% of the folks who say that have never even played a KF or ST game, nor do they care to bother trying even if you ask them to. Shit, even if you beg them to. So, when I ask how these Souls games compare in relation to KF/ST, I cannot get a valid wide ranging response. The only way to find out the truth then, is to do it myself. So, if the Souls games are not truly frighteningly difficult, I would of course be disappointed on that one aspect. Conversely, if the Souls games kick my ass, I'd actually be happy about that.

I don't remember beating anything pretty tough... then again, my memory is pretty bad

Wasn't Baroque pretty tough?

[Xeogred]

The retired bruno has played them all and kind of tells me that the KF games really aren't that hard and get easier as you go.

I can see that being the case since with a good build and equipment, that is how some of the Souls games can end up being as well. I'm figuring the challenge to KF and Shadow Tower is just going back and getting over that interface and the slow motion circle strafing combat. I'm sure they're chalk full of death traps though like Demon's was haha. I'm looking forward to playing some dungeon crawling From stuff that actually has BGM.

I have never once considered going back to the KF games for the difficulty alone. I think it'll just be cool to see the roots of the Souls games. You need to move forward and I need to move backwards on these. lol

[laurenhiya21]

I don't remember beating anything pretty tough... then again, my memory is pretty bad

Wasn't Baroque pretty tough?

Hmm... I wouldn't say it was tough. Near the end was pretty scary, since a lot of the enemies were a little mean on the status effects and rockets, but I could run away most of the time without much trouble. I did play on Easy though so that probably helped a bit.

[Michi]

All this Souls talk reminds me of this video I recently watched made by a guy who spent two years animating his experience with Dark Souls 2.

I haven't even played any of the Souls games and I found it highly entertaining. Keep your eye out for the Luigi cameo.

[Exhuminator]

The retired bruno has played them all and kind of tells me that the KF games really aren't that hard and get easier as you go.

I don't know who this bruno fellow is, but I've been gaming long enough to know when a game is hard. The KF games are hard, at least front loaded hard. Of course they get easier as you go, because you gain significant stat levels and collect better gear. It'd be pointless to do those things, if they had no positive net effect.

I'm figuring the challenge to KF and Shadow Tower is just going back and getting over that interface and the slow motion circle strafing combat.

Nah, that's the easy part. The challenge in the KF/ST games, is navigating large complex worlds full of secret areas, deadly traps, and arcane puzzles. All while surviving against ever more dangerous enemies, and not getting hopelessly lost. To do those things, without using a walkthrough, is definitely challenging. I say that, because that's how I played through them. (i.e. no spoilerific walkthroughs to sour my experiences.)

I'm looking forward to playing some dungeon crawling From stuff that actually has BGM.

And damn good BGM at that! The KF games all have fantastic OSTs. That's something I'm really missing in Shadow Tower. It has no BGM whatsoever... though I understand why conceptually.

You need to move forward and I need to move backwards on these.

Speaking for myself, I am moving forward. I wanted to beat all the From Software first person dungeon crawlers, before moving on to their third person ones. As such I've finished KF1, KF2, KF3:PS, KF3, KF4, Eternal Ring, and I'm now working my way through the two Shadow Tower games. After that, it's the Souls series. It will be interesting to see how Hidetaka Miyazaki directed those, versus how Natoshi Zin handled the first person classics. And even more interesting to see if their design is truly as brutal as I've heard so many claim.

Baroque - I wouldn't say it was tough / I did play on Easy though

Those two statements are probably not unrelated. I'm sure you could handle Shadow Tower though, insofar as you got past the first two crazy hours. Give it a shot!

---

So to actually provide an update on Shadow Tower now... I've cleared the Human Realm, the Earth Realm, most of the Fire Realm, and have messed around a bit in the Water Realm. I beat the first boss last night, and made it to the second boss... but it burned my ass alive because I was simply out of decent gear. Going through the Fire Realm pretty much destroyed every piece of gear I had, thanks to assloads of enemies made of tough metal and damaging fire. I had to backtrack a really long way back up the tower, to reach the one blacksmith I could remember how to find. I had him repair all of my stuff, and now I'm about to take on that second boss again tonight. Once I defeat it, I'll continue on through the Water Realm.

I'm still loving Shadow Tower, and I still think it's easier than KF. However, that's speaking only relatively. Shadow Tower is still a very tough experience compared to your average game, and it's actually taxing enough on my nerves, that I find it hard to play for more than an hour at a time. Gonna beat it though, I wanna be the guy.