RPG Progress Report

[pierrot]

I started playing Ogre Battle again, because I had a wicked desire to get to Tactics Ogre, but wanted to get through MotBQ first. I don't know if that was the best idea, but I probably wouldn't allow myself to play TO any other way.

At any rate, I was re-reading the together RPG thread, and am possibly enjoying myself as much as Ack was back then. I can understand the issues I was having with the game back then, as well, but haven't been bothered nearly as much this time around. The mechanics are functional, but they really feel like they needed more planning. The fine level of management required for development of characters' ALI and CHA, and the extremely indirect control over character actions, in conjunction with maps that seem to take upwards of two hours to complete, makes for a pretty putrid combination at times. This problem is particularly apparent when running into enemy units of mixed alignments--and even more so considering I've been using mixed alignment units to avoid scenarios where a high alignment unit becomes completely ineffectual during the night, since that's something the manual for the Saturn version recommends.

For some reason, when I took my first crack at Ogre Battle, I couldn't seem to get my chaos flame out of the toilet; I suspect that was because I may have started out as the dark-type Opinion Leader. This time I got a warrior-type, and my chaos flame is already maxed, which has removed a bit of the headache in starting out. I've also been using a couple of shinigami units, which has alleviated some concerns about ALI, but not all of them. I haven't gotten Staves or Rings of the Dead, or Dream Crowns, and I'm feeling like that will probably continue for a while. (I have a couple of Dragon Stones and Blood Spells though--yay--.)

Apparently the Saturn version adds five new maps, and I don't know that I'm happy about that, considering the added time investment, even though I have battle animations turned off and map speed set to the highest setting. I can clear out most of the maps, so far, in a single, in-game, day, but it still takes about an hour in real time.

I noticed this in the together RPG thread:
http://www.aamf.com/rant001.html

One of the most disturbing of these alterations is that the ankhs wielded by holy warriors become crosses. I prefer the idea of an ankh for several reasons. An ankh has a certain similarity to the Venus symbol, reinforcing the female empowerment undercurrent in this game. An ankh is also less familiar to most of those playing this game [...], adding to the mystical nature that surrounds gameplay. Replacing the Ankh with a cross is simply odd, especially given the later games where crosses associated with the Lodis Empire.

Someone ought to tell this person that the crosses were changed to ankhs when the game was localized for the SNES, and that Matsuno Yasumi wasn't a part of the later games, anyway. Although, considering it was posted over a decade ago, I imagine someone has at this point.
On the subject of annoying changes, though, "Diaspola"? Really? I refuse to believe that the original translators weren't aware of the word "diaspora," and if they were trying to make it sound less ethno-religiously charged, why not just change the name entirely.

[MrPopo]

So while the night/day dichotomy for unit strength is present it is not a huge factor in unit strengths. What makes a bigger difference is the fact that the player builds far more optimized armies than the computer does; it takes quite a while before they even routinely fill out all the slots in a unit and they still like to do units with subpar damage due to positioning.

[BoneSnapDeez]

Two dungeons down in Episode II of PSOBB. Really like the designs of these particular levels. The quests aren't working though. Server issues? I dunno.

Oh, and the treasure chests in the second dungeon are Xboxes lol.

[pierrot]

So while the night/day dichotomy for unit strength is present it is not a huge factor in unit strengths. What makes a bigger difference is the fact that the player builds far more optimized armies than the computer does; it takes quite a while before they even routinely fill out all the slots in a unit and they still like to do units with subpar damage due to positioning.

It seems to me that the difference is about as noticeable as the change in strength/defense between different unit commands in battle. I'm not too worried about it now, but it was something I was paying attention to initially, which coincides roughly with the time that I was concerned about character's ALI and CHA stats.

I opened up the first Chaos Gate, and got a Staff of the Dead from trading Portia's statue to (Ernest) Borgnine. It's looking a little bleak for me right now, in terms of getting Warren's ALI up enough to make him a goetic. I have a number of other goetics, but their INT isn't really stellar enough that I feel like using this one staff I have to make one into a necromancer. I'm now awash with freyas, so I can probably make due for a while, anyway. I'm really hoping I actually pick up a couple (useful) class-up items from random drops sometime soon. I'm overflowing with Drago Stones and Blood Spells, and it's starting to piss me off.

I'm wrestling a little bit right now with this ninja I have in Lancelot's unit: He's level 15 with 100 CHA, and maybe 73 ALI--so, high enough to change into a paladin. I have plenty of paladins, but I'm not sure if I want to spend the time dragging down his ALI in random battles to change him into a ninja master. At the same time, I'm pretty light on low ALI melee characters.

[alienjesus]

I'm still trucking away at Persona 4 Golden.

I've just defeated Shadow Kanji and rescued Kanji Tatsumi. I'm just waiting for him to return to school so I can progress the story.


Is it sad that I really like having so much downtime between dungeons where I can just boost my social stats and social links?

[MrPopo]

So while the night/day dichotomy for unit strength is present it is not a huge factor in unit strengths. What makes a bigger difference is the fact that the player builds far more optimized armies than the computer does; it takes quite a while before they even routinely fill out all the slots in a unit and they still like to do units with subpar damage due to positioning.

It seems to me that the difference is about as noticeable as the change in strength/defense between different unit commands in battle. I'm not too worried about it now, but it was something I was paying attention to initially, which coincides roughly with the time that I was concerned about character's ALI and CHA stats.

I always found the best part of tactics was being able to focus my damage on key targets.

[Xeogred]

Kind of a random non-gameplay question... but is the story in Ogre Battle good? I wonder how it stacks compared to Matsuno's other titles. Big casts, gray line storytelling, and political intrigue are always awesome to me in RPG's.

[MrPopo]

The political intrigue is lighter, and more focused in individual map vignettes. Many of your opponents are more interesting than "yargh, I am teh evulz", which is what leads to their recruitments. And you can see a lot of good story scenes by having specific named units fighting against specific bosses. But in terms of an overarching reasoning behind the bad guys, you mostly hear it in past tense. Ogre Battle 64 greatly enhances the storytelling.

[pierrot]

I always found the best part of tactics was being able to focus my damage on key targets.

Sure. I'm not really good enough at keeping up with where certain characters will attack, based on their position to, fiddle too much with that, personally. I only really try to do it when I want my cockatrices to petrify something I really don't like. I tend to use the 'attack separately' command to boost party defense when enemies are attacking--particularly if I have high ALI characters fighting low ALI characters at night--and the 'squelch' command when my characters are attacking, to do more damage.

Kind of a random non-gameplay question... but is the story in Ogre Battle good? I wonder how it stacks compared to Matsuno's other titles. Big casts, gray line storytelling, and political intrigue are always awesome to me in RPG's.

The only other Matsuno game I've really played is Final Fantasy XII, but I'm playing Ogre Battle now because I wanted to work through his gameography. I like the story in Ogre Battle though. It's kind of subtle at times, and fleshing things out seems to require revisiting specific towns, and having particular characters attack the stage bosses. It's not spectacular, but it appears to promise to get better, and the presentation in general has kept me into the game (I don't love the game play). The Saturn version has a lot of voice acting, which is better in some instances than others, but is generally a nice touch.

The cast is pretty robust, and there's a bit of intrigue. There seems to be some gray area to the story, but there's also a bit of the game telling the player not to pick a side; but pick a side, because it's the only way one can decipher what's right from wrong. It's a little heavy handed about it, at times.

[Jmustang1968]

You don't want mixed alignment units. They will tend to gravitate towards each other. Say if you had 4 low ali and 1 high, the high would lose ali. Stick warren with a group of high ali and then he should go up.
Ideally, you will have some low ali units, some high, and some neutral. The night/day factor isn't that big of a deal except for classes like werewolves and vampires. Your good ali units will often be a few levels below.
So you want your low ali to mop up and your good ali to be more selective. I also stack a few units at chokepoints where you can rotate them out easily if they start leveling too high. Send the high level guy to guard a far off town, and rotate a fresh unit in.

You also have much more control then you think once you get down the rules of who attacks who based on unit formations.

You mentioned undead staff, but that makes a sorcerer with 2 mage attacks. A necro needs the undead ring.

The story in Ogre Battle is light. It more tells through small bits of dialogue, and then just liberating cities and each telling small snippets of info. You then kind of put these together and get more of a sense and feel how things were as opposed to an arching plot and such. It is subtle like pierrot states. Tactics Ogre is where the complex plot comes alive.