World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[prfsnl_gmr]

Say what you will but I really do see it as overreaction....I mean i have a little sister(and as much as I loathe her sometimes) I do kinda fear for her safety especially since charlotte especially in the seedy parts of town and such scares me a bit. Plus it seems to be more on the side of "you have freedom of speech and religion as long as it doesn't offend <insert growing list of races, and groups>".

Really? Really? You are honestly afraid that a man will pretend that he identifies as a woman so that he can sneak into a women's bathroom and molest your sister while she is in a seedy part of town. That is actually something you fear?

Also, please cut it with the "freedom of religion" crap. That has become such a talking point for some of our nation's worst bigots, and it is complete bullshit (that reflects a deep misunderstanding about how freedom of speech and freedom of religion actually work). If they are sincere in their beliefs, then they think that "freedom of religion" means freedom from criticism. In other words, they are saying that they have the freedom to do, say, and believe whatever they want and that they are "persecuted" if their ridiculous views are criticized in some way (i.e., "freedom for me, not for you"). That isn't how it works, however, and the very best thing about freedom of speech is that it allows people to criticize viewpoints and forces people to defend their positions. If they can't do that - or if their only response is " stop persecuting me!" - their beliefs, ideas, and positions are undoubtedly wrong and wholly unworthy of consideration by serious, intelligent people.

[darsparx]

Yeah but it seems if you're a muslim you're free to do as you please(as long as it doesn't include bombings and such) but if you're a Chirstian you're automatically a bigot. It's not a bad fear to have but I guess as someone who isn't part of the lgbt community(and doesn't agree with a lot of things this world has to say) I'm automatically a bigot especially in your lawyer eyes. I'm kinda tired of the crap where muslims and lgbt can do and say as they please but people like me are the idiots here.....really sad and pathetic.

[MrPopo]

When you act bigoted that gets you labeled a bigot. I'd like you to give an example where people are giving American Muslims a pass on bigoted behavior.

[prfsnl_gmr]

Yeah but it seems if you're a muslim you're free to do as you please(as long as it doesn't include bombings and such) but if you're a Chirstian you're automatically a bigot.

Please stop with the whole "Christians are persecuted in America!" thing. It simply is not true.

"But...but...you don't allow me to spout ignorant bullshit with impunity and you don't criticize muslims enough! Wah!"

You know what? Muslims didn't pass one of the most discriminatory and mean-spirited laws in North Carolina history. Self-professed "Christians" did that, and that's why I criticize them. If self-professed muslims had passed such a law, I would not hesitate to rebuke them. Also, and just so that we're clear...I think that the laws in countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, etc. are absolutely barbaric and utterly intolerable. I don't (and would never) live in those countries, and there isn't a whole lot I can do to change them. I do live in North Carolina and the United States, however, and I can influence results here.

It's not a bad fear to have but I guess as someone who isn't part of the lgbt community(and doesn't agree with a lot of things this world has to say) I'm automatically a bigot especially in your lawyer eyes.

Yes, it is a "bad" fear. It is completely separated from reality, and the very worst politicians in our state used it as an excuse to pass a horrible law permitting discrimination against people based on their gender identity and sexual orientation. Moreover, you should not conflate regurgitation of right-wing, political talking points with critical, "rebellious" thinking. In my experience, the two rarely, if ever, go hand-in-hand. Finally..."lawyer eyes"? Seriously? If that is supposed to be an insult, it fails miserably. If it is intended to imply that my eyes are specially trained to recognize bullshit, logical fallacies, weak arguments, then I heartily accept the compliment.

I'm kinda tired of the crap where muslims and lgbt can do and say as they please but people like me are the idiots here.....really sad and pathetic.

As PoPo pointed out, I don't tolerate bigotry, ignorance, misogyny, etc. wherever I find it. Accordingly, minorities - like everyone else - cannot "do and say as they please" without repercussions, and they certainly can't "do and say as they please" in North Carolina...which now explicitly permits people to discriminate against them in the name of "religious liberty."

.....

Also, darksparx, you should be as mad as anyone about HB2, since it prevents municipalities from raising your wages above a paltry $7.25/hour and restricts your right to seek relief in court for illegal discrimination. (None of which, BTW, has anything at all to do with the "restroom" provisions of Charlotte's broad anti-discrimination ordinance.)

.....

Finally, it makes me furious when people who justify discrimination against others based on their gender identity or sexual orientation act like they have some sort of monopoly of Christianity, ethics, "family values," etc. They simply do not, and in my opinion, often display both a complete ignorance of the Bible's actual contents and a shocking lack of the charity, compassion, courage, justice, kindness, humility, love, prudence, and other virtues it encourages.

[MrPopo]

Yeah but it seems if you're a muslim you're free to do as you please(as long as it doesn't include bombings and such) but if you're a Chirstian you're automatically a bigot.

Please stop with the whole "Christians are persecuted in America!" thing. It simply is not true.

Thank you. Christians are slowly being made to realize they aren't the default. That is not the same as being persecuted. I was raised Jewish, which meant that unless I went out of my way everyone assumed I was Christian. Most Christians don't really grasp just how ingrained the assumption is that everyone loves Jesus.

[Sarge]

Not impressed by the level of discourse right now.

[ElkinFencer10]

Christianity is the LEAST persecuted religion in America. I mean, damn, the fact that "He's a Muslim" was used as an attack on President Obama should prove that much (ignoring the fact that it's neither true nor even remotely relevant). The fact that our elected officials swear in on the Bible proves that. The fact that we changed our motto from "E pluribus unum" to "In God We Trust" proves that. The fact that we shoved that onto our money and shoehorned into our pledge in the 1950s proves that. The fact that presidents host a National Prayer Breakfast every year proves that. The fact that politicians take major heat for saying "Happy Holidays" proves that.

There are a lot of groups that are genuinely oppressed, abused, and/or persecuted in the United States. At no point have Christians ever been one of those groups. Believe it or not, "Freedom of Religion" does not mean "Freedom to push Christianity on everyone else" or "Freedom of MY religion."

[Sarge]

Okay, even accepting that Christians are the least discriminated against group, this doesn't automatically mean that there is no discrimination against Christians. This is true of other groups as well.

There's a reason I don't usually wade into topics like this, because the basic template has already been put into place; the only opposition can only come from hatred or bigotry, and instead of stating why a person is wrong, inflammatory rhetoric is used to bludgeon them into silence.

Quite frankly, the only thing I've gotten from this, despite the diversity in Christian and right-wing thought on these matters, is "Screw Christianity and screw right-wingers." I happen to think we can do better than that on this board, even if the Internet at large can't.

[dsheinem]

Sarge, with all due respect, that's a tremendous misread. I hope it isn't deliberate.

prfsnl_gmr and popo are being both eloquent and forceful, but also kind and fair.

[Sarge]

That may be true. Intent is hard to gauge through text. That's how it feels to me, and I never willfully misrepresent my thoughts.