Modern Games Industry: How'd We Get Here?

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LensOfTruth
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Re: Modern Games Industry: How'd We Get Here?

Post by LensOfTruth »

MrEco wrote:Oh, I'm not saying that all games are bad right now. But in my opinion video games seemed to reach a peak between like, 1997 to 2005 or so. Just a rough estimate off the top of my head. Since then I'd say that in a very broad way video games have been slowly getting worse as they recycle ideas, become more streamlined, etc etc... I think that if they continue along that trend then two or three console generations latter I might just lose interest in modern games and spend my time enjoying my backlog of retro gold.
That's exactly what happened to me. I did buy a 360, but I wanted to play the PS3 exclusives, so I swapped out. After about Uncharted 2, I realized I wasn't having much fun, and I ended up selling the PS3. Since then, I've been watching games get worse, and I do feel that the quality did start to downgrade around the end of the PS2 days.

This topic has actually been very eye-opening. For today's children, raised on Angry Birds, the HD sights and sounds of "big kid" games like Assassin's Creed and Call of Duty probably seem like a dream. For us "older folks," watching the dawn of the home console and its evolutions since the Atari 2600 days has given us real insight into how great video games can be. That's why all these new development philosophies have torn away the creative fabric in the name of big money.
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Exhuminator
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Re: Modern Games Industry: How'd We Get Here?

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MrEco wrote:I think that if they continue along that trend then two or three console generations latter I might just lose interest in modern games and spend my time enjoying my backlog of retro gold.
That's where I am already. I have zero interest in getting a PS4 or One or Wii U. Nor do I plan to buy any 3DS or Vita successor. I do not plan to acquire any of those things for at least five if not ten more years. My current library of 360/PS3/3DS/Vita and back could easily keep me busy gaming for many, many years. I mean there has to be a point where you say, "enough is enough, I'm going to draw a line in the sand here, and focus entirely on what I've already amassed". I am reaching that critical mass. After I acquire the 360/PS3/3DS/Vita releases I still want, I'll be there. Granted, that collecting will take a while.

I should add its not just a huge library keeping me in check, I really don't like the online centric nature of the PS4 and One, and there's barely any exclusives on the platforms yet that interest me. It's the same with the Wii U. There's like 4 Wii U games I actually would like to play. Hard to justify buying a console for 4 games.
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BoneSnapDeez
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Re: Modern Games Industry: How'd We Get Here?

Post by BoneSnapDeez »

For me, retro stuff is just infinitely more appealing than current-gen.

If I chose to go "console shopping" I'd choose an MSX or CD-I or Emerson Arcadia 2001 over an Xbox One.
I'd choose a Mattel Aquarius or Epoch Cassette Vision or SuperGrafx over a PS4.

I've hit the limit. I do enjoy the Wii U, 3DS, and Vita because I can find enough "retro-ish" stuff to suite my tastes. But I have little interest in any future hardware.

I am loving this modern indie scene on the PC though. I must admit that I find PC gaming more exciting now than I did years ago.
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Exhuminator
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Re: Modern Games Industry: How'd We Get Here?

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BoneSnapDeez wrote:I've hit the limit. I do enjoy the Wii U, 3DS, and Vita because I can find enough "retro-ish" stuff to suite my tastes. But I have little interest in any future hardware.
But why does Bone has a 360?
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BoneSnapDeez
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Re: Modern Games Industry: How'd We Get Here?

Post by BoneSnapDeez »

Cave shmups
Blue Dragon
Fable II & III
The Last Remnant
Lost Odyssey
Konami Classics 1 & 2
Capcom Digital Collection
Mass Effect trilogy
Tales of Vesperia
The Witcher 2

Is that reason enough? :wink:
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chuckster
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Re: Modern Games Industry: How'd We Get Here?

Post by chuckster »

I've hit the limit. I do enjoy the Wii U, 3DS, and Vita because I can find enough "retro-ish" stuff to suite my tastes. But I have little interest in any future hardware.

I am loving this modern indie scene on the PC though. I must admit that I find PC gaming more exciting now than I did years ago.
+1
LensOfTruth wrote: That's why all these new development philosophies have torn away the creative fabric in the name of big money.
That's very poignant. If I knew how to do a Sig, and chose a line from RB, this would be it.
marlowe221 wrote:Also, when it comes to game preservation, digital is the ultimate solution in the long term. I love my original hardware in most cases. But I recognize that there will come a day when there is no longer a working NES or Genesis out there in the world. There will come a day when the cartridges no longer function. CDs and DVDs are very easy to damage and the systems that use/used them have more moving parts and seem to be even more prone to critical hardware failure than the older, cartridge-based consoles.
I agree with this. I dislike the idea of digital distribution. I live in the one of the most depressed areas in the USA, and have horrible internet access with a cap, so it has never been much of an option for me. I have a copy of Shogun 2 that I got free with my PC from Steam, but at 26GB, it would take nearly all of my monthly cap to get it, which isn't worth it. I ended up buying the disc version off Ebay. It feels like digital distribution is ignoring that I and many others have these issues, but that's not the fault of video game companies, and I digress.

Whatever my umbrage, digital distribution is coming, and has great potential for good or for bad. One thing digital has done on the positive side in my view is allow an alternative to unreliable optical drives. The first time I saw the Wii could download and play VC games, and then learned the 360 could copy games and run them from its HDD, I saw great potential. I got a used Wii and its disc drive started failing within a few months, but it didn't matter much to me because with the built-in ability to play games from storage media, I was mostly reading rips of my library from a re-purposed HDD. This was just a simple softmod involving less than 30 minutes, compared to converting my Xbox to do the same when its disc drive began its demise, which was a headache and took a few tries (experience my have played a part here).

Support for the online repositories of older consoles is going to go down inevitably, but gaming is more popular than ever. Look at how well the imminently less accessible games from 20 and 30 years ago have been preserved (okay, so in the grand scheme, not so good maybe, but hear me out). It bears out that these patches and DLC packs and digital-only games will preserved by the much larger community with much more widespread and suitable capability, even if not by the publishers themselves. With this in mind, I have no doubt it will be possible (albeit questionable) to play and enjoy games released or supported digitally. You can go now and do this very thing, creating a patched and DRM-bypassed "archive" of most any game on Steam if you so desire, and I'm sure most XBLA/PSN-only games will be the same, not to mention DLC and patches. I'm not supporting it, but if the digital doomsayers have gotten you down, it's something to consider.
IMHO, it's not the indie market we should be worried about. If a collapse is coming anywhere, it's coming here. Arguably, it may already be happening with some of the traditional big names in console gaming bowing out of the market (e.g. Konami).
Too true. Was in a Gamestop today and I realized I couldn't find a game I'd add to my PS4 collection (which is only about 10-12 games), there just aren't many big console games coming out anymore. I could just be being picky, but it never seemed like the industry experienced such a drought. In the last 20 years I was looking, there were always multiple games I'd want at the same time, but had to decide between. Now I'm just wanting a single game worth picking up.

The thing is, DRM is currently working really well. Denuvo takes months for hackers to get through and has almost caused a few to throw in the towel. You can say, "well they still get through it," but the goal of Denuvo isn't to be uncrackable forever but to keep the game's initial sales period free from piracy. So far, so good.
That's true. I'm actually really fascinated with some conversations surrounding Denuvo. The creators seem to think of it as more of a time-release pirating block. I wonder if they are holding back, making each iteration just a bit more difficult to circumvent without showing their true hand, making crack teams do the testing for them. Some say the same for the pirate groups, that they had become complacent and this will be a call to a new type of cracker that will set a new standard for DRM crackdowns. I support GoG as much as I can with my limited resources, but this is a very interesting arms race.

As for the books vs. games argument, I think the odds of finding something you subjectively like are going to be wildly different between people for any medium, but if you draw on a million samples vs. 10000, with a similar difference in install base and available information, not to mention the relative resources required for a book or short story vs. a full RPG or indie platformer, of course the odds are better for finding a book you like. I read many more books I consider bad before coming across something I love (probably 12 to 1), than I do for games.

Then again, I look for much more when seeking out a book than I do a a game. I expect more from a book before I'd call it "good" compared to a game. I look for a different type of experience when I watch a film or listen to a song as well. They're as different as any other two forms of media.

There is also a greater amount of marketing and "push" for a book from a decently sized publisher, because the book has to be read and approved by multiple editors and agents before really getting that sort of treatment. Games mostly rely on word of mouth. Looking at recent publishing I'd say this mirrors AAA game development, leading to more generic, less interesting and original writing rising to the top of public perception, just as it has with CoD and the like. I guarantee there is more crap per capita each year in book publishing than in game publishing, even considering the much greater sample to average. But that's just one very personal opinion. Someone else with different criteria and values would likely have a different outlook.
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Exhuminator
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Re: Modern Games Industry: How'd We Get Here?

Post by Exhuminator »

BoneSnapDeez wrote:Cave shmups
Blue Dragon
Fable II & III
The Last Remnant
Lost Odyssey
Konami Classics 1 & 2
Capcom Digital Collection
Mass Effect trilogy
Tales of Vesperia
The Witcher 2

Is that reason enough? :wink:
Closet modern gaming casual, confirmed.
PLAY KING'S FIELD.
marlowe221
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Re: Modern Games Industry: How'd We Get Here?

Post by marlowe221 »

I am OK with modern consoles/hardware though I do share the sentiment of finding smaller and smaller percentages of interesting games in the console space as time goes on.

We have an Xbox One. We bought it mainly for its media center capabilities, which it is actually pretty good at. We had a "smart" blu-ray player before but it must not have had much in the way of RAM because that thing was slow as Christmas. After doing some research into a replacement that would be better, I found that I was quickly getting up into console price ranges so I thought, why not... I do have a couple of games for it but the wife uses it far more than I do for Netflix/Hulu/HBOGO/etc.

But we have had a lot of fun with the Wii U. I think people will look back at it in 20 years and call it a seriously underrated console. Just MHO, of course.

And the 3DS? I can't get enough, honestly. I have been playing the piss out of that thing and can't wait to see what Nintendo does next in the handheld market for a hardware successor.

Overall though, I am very PC focused these days.
Have: Sega Genesis, SNES, Atari 2600, Atari 7800, Atari 800XL, PC, N3DS XL, Wii U, GBA, Xbox One, Switch

Want: Games!!!
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BoringSupreez
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Re: Modern Games Industry: How'd We Get Here?

Post by BoringSupreez »

Wow, this is a really fast-moving topic.

My biggest gripe with the modern gaming industry is something the OP already brough up: the disappearance of mid-tier games. Go back 10 years, and there were very few indie games, a bunch of mid-tier games, and a decent amount of AAA games.

To clarify, I'm defining mid-tier games as things like Oddworld, Psychonauts, Freedom Fighters, Timesplitters, Beyond Good and Evil, stuff like that. Games made by publishers well known to gamers, fun games, but nothing that sells systems or breaks into pop culture as a whole. AAA games from that same era would be Halo 2, Half Life 2, MGS3, and Madden.

Today, we've got tons of AAA games like Assassin's Creed, COD, Bioshock, Borderlands, etc. There's countless indie games coming out all the time, especially on PC. Most of which are complete garbage, made by no-talent Eastern European hacks hoping that someone makes a typo in the Steam search bar, or androgynous hipsters with a Skrillex hairdo. Hyperbole, I know.

The lack of mid-tier games really hurts though. Japanese developers used to account for a good bulk of these titles, and ever since HD consoles came out those devs have been in a steady decline. I love Western games, but that doesn't mean I only want to play those sorts of games. I like the over-the-top linear stories that Japanese games tend to feature, the different styles of music, and the more colorful graphics they tend to use. The mid-tier Western games tended to be more experimental, more unique, and less cliche as well.

People can say that this is all due to increased costs of HD development, but I really think that many gamers would settle for lower-quality 3D graphics as long as the gameplay is solid. I would have no issue with buying a 2016 game with Halo CE-tier graphics if it was as fun as Halo CE. Instead, we can choose between either yet another tired NES-style retro game, Deeply Profound Artistic Game #4339, or the latest safe AAA experience (plus season pass).
prfsnl_gmr wrote:There is nothing feigned about it. What I wrote is a display of actual moral superiority.
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LensOfTruth
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Re: Modern Games Industry: How'd We Get Here?

Post by LensOfTruth »

BoringSupreez wrote:People can say that this is all due to increased costs of HD development, but I really think that many gamers would settle for lower-quality 3D graphics as long as the gameplay is solid. I would have no issue with buying a 2016 game with Halo CE-tier graphics if it was as fun as Halo CE. Instead, we can choose between either yet another tired NES-style retro game, Deeply Profound Artistic Game #4339, or the latest safe AAA experience (plus season pass).
I'd argue this too, but I may be a bigger enthusiast than some; If the PS3's library had been a natural evolution of the PS2's, I would have probably continued playing modern stuff.

Unfortunately, it seems that, in the face of growing mobile and PC markets, developers and publishers pushed for more "hype-able" graphics, story, presentation, etc. to stay relevant.
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