World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[Ack]

I think a large number of Americans defend billionaires vehemently because they think of themselves as pending millionaires This is a uniquely American thing too.. Most other nations seldom defend their richest class. And I do wonder where this charity ends up because I keep seeing more and more Americans asking for crowdfunding to save their lives from life-threatening illnesses.

In Romney's case, the vast majority of it goes to the Church of Latter Day Saints. Hey, he's Mormon, it figures. Other groups are My Sister's Keeper, The Becket Fund, and a little to the Mass General Hospital Cancer Center. He also gave to all of these in 2010 via his Tyler Foundation(note, not the Japanese Tyler Foundation or the other Tyler Foundation, which does work with epileptic children):

The Belmont Hill School ($5,000)
Best Friends Foundation ($15,000)
Boys and Girls Club Of Boston ($10,000)
Brigham Young University ($25,000)
Center For Treatment of Pediatric MS ($75,000)
City Year ($5,000)
Dana Farber Cancer Institute ($10,000)
Dana Farber Pan Mass Challenge ($20,000)
Deseret International ($25,000)
Friends Of The Belmont Council ($20,000)
George W. Bush Library ($100,000)
Harvard Business School ($10,000)
Camp High Hopes ($5,000)
Homes For Our Troops ($20,000)
Inner-City Scholarship Fund ($10,000)
Joey Fund For Cystic Fybrosis ($20,000)
MMOFRA Trom Foundation ($30,000)
MS Cure ($10,000)
Operation Kids ($65,000)
Right To Play ($10,000)
US Equestrian Team Foundation ($10,000)
Wright Museum ($25,000)

I have no info after that because that was the last return he released publicly.

[Erik_Twice]

Funny enough, Mitt Romney likely also gives more to charity in a year than this entire forum combined.

It's easy to give more to charity when you are tens of thousands of times richer than the average person.

There's no sacrifice on his part. The dude has a net worth of over 250 MILLION dollars! of his whole net worth. It would take me 12 250 YEARS working at Spain's average wage just to match his net worth. Giving up 500 000 dollars a year is nothing for him, it's literally 0,2% of his money and he's getting far, far more than 0,2% on interest rates alone. It's a pathethic amount for someone as rich as him.

I don't even think it's any more decent of him to donate to charity than it would be for him to call an ambulance because a man was ran over. It's such a low bar that I cannot accept it as a positive, it's simply being a decent human being to me.

Personally, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I were that rich and only gave 500 000 dollars to charity a year.

I think a large number of Americans defend billionaires vehemently because they think of themselves as pending millionaires

There's a fantastic quote about this, actually:
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

[Ack]

There's a fantastic quote about this, actually:
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

Do you not think this is a brilliant way to look at the world? Sure, the reality is that most people will never get very far economically, but the sheer belief that you can has driven some individuals to succeed that never would have been able to anywhere else in the world. Hell, our entertainment industry alone was pioneered by people who felt this way and in many cases is still fueled by them.

[ElkinFencer10]

There's a fantastic quote about this, actually:
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

Do you not think this is a brilliant way to look at the world? Sure, the reality is that most people will never get very far economically, but the sheer belief that you can has driven some individuals to succeed that never would have been able to anywhere else in the world. Hell, our entertainment industry alone was pioneered by people who felt this way and in many cases is still fueled by them.

It's a great ideal, and as an ideal, I have no problem with it, but we've taken it to the point where we've allowed a plutocratic upper class to use and abuse the the rest of us.

[Ack]

But that "plutocratic upper class" is still surprisingly more fluid than you may realize. I've seen friends and family lose everything, go bust, and still work their way back up multiple times. Hell, I've seen my father lose everything three times in his life, and yet each time he came back better off than before. He now fits the bill for American upper class, though he would be the first to admit that he doesn't feel like it.

Individuals still have a lot of capability in the US. Yes, some folks use and abuse others and society; this isn't exclusive to the rich. And yes, some folks may pay more or less taxes, because they sat down and thought out how to get around them, or their income is tied in such a way to assets that are not taxed as highly.

I work in entertainment. I could claim every movie I go see, every television-related product I buy, or heck, even every video game I pick up as an untaxable business expense. And all of it is justifiable, because of what my work is in entertainment. My work requires I consume entertainment, to serve as a sort of brain trust for my company. To be sure of this, I've consulted financiers and accountants for their opinions, and they have backed me on it every time. I did this on the cheap, but if I had multiple millions, you can bet I'd have more people checking over it every step of the way.

The tax rate isn't as much of an issue on a personal level as you may think, and if you really wanted to lower your rate, you can find a way to do it. The corporate income tax rate is where I feel the real issue is, because the US one is so high(39.1% on average, third highest in the world), but there are so many loopholes that it was effectively 12.1% in 2010. This is an issue because it prevents new businesses from being able to develop, since they won't necessarily have the funds, knowledge, or manpower to figure out how to lower their effective tax rate, while older established companies are capable of lowering their rate and going global to shift where they pay taxes.

Also, student loan debt. This is a terrible problem that must be dealt with ASAP. I know far too many brilliant minds saddled with $50k+ in debt for education, and a few that are in debt of $100k+.

[ElkinFencer10]

I think we have several differing views on tax code (which is a good thing, IMO), but we definitely agree on student loan debt. I lucked out big time by going to a public university with a lot of grants since my mom's a single parents working a relatively low paying job (something like $12 per hour), and I still graduated a year and a half ago with $26k in debt. I'm doubly lucky, though, because I work for the state government, so my loans get forgiven as long as I keep working for the state and make 120 minimum payments.

I'm sure there are differing opinions here on whether or not higher education is a public good or something that should require some kind of tuition payment, but regardless of those specifics, I think we can all agree that our system of higher education is prohibitively expensive. Some of my students now are brilliant young minds but know that they probably can't pay for college even with the scholarships geared towards minorities. There are a lot of ways that we help low income, minority, and first-generation college students afford a degree, but those barriers are still insurmountable for an extraordinary number of kids with a plethora of potential.

[Ack]

Actually are situations are more similar than you may realize. My parents paid for my college using a PACT account they had set up when I was only a couple of years old. It covered all of my undergraduate degree, but I had to resort to about $32k in student loans for grad school. After graduating, I had a couple of years of deferment while I was unemployed. While I could have gone the public sector route you went, I ended up in a corporation, so I'm having to pay them all back myself over time. Out of five loans, one is paid off at this point, and another should be handled this year, though I'm looking at potentially up to a decade of further payments. That's nearly $400 a month I don't get to spend or save.

Admittedly as long as there is a price on college education, it will be a burden to someone. It is worth noting that more people are going to college; at least, the percentage of the populace obtaining bachelor's degrees has continued to steadily climb. But I wonder if eventually we'll reach a point where this taps out as a result of price.

[MrPopo]

Admittedly as long as there is a price on college education, it will be a burden to someone. It is worth noting that more people are going to college; at least, the percentage of the populace obtaining bachelor's degrees has continued to steadily climb. But I wonder if eventually we'll reach a point where this taps out as a result of price.

I'd argue that we have been encouraging too many people to go to college and not enough to go to trade school. There's been an expectation set up that when you graduate high school you need to go to college or you'll be consigned to unskilled labor for the rest of your life. But the trades make good money and we're seeing that workforce becoming older without a good influx of replacements from the younger generations.

[ElkinFencer10]

I'm all for trade schools in addition to traditional universities. My problem is the states that do what mine has been trying to do - push trade schools by defunding traditional universities as well as defund the arts in high schools to fund trade classes. I think a woodshop or automotive repair class is a fantastic thing for high schools to offer, but I don't think it's right to eliminate theater or music programs to pay for that.

[Ack]

I'm all for trade schools in addition to traditional universities. My problem is the states that do what mine has been trying to do - push trade schools by defunding traditional universities as well as defund the arts in high schools to fund trade classes. I think a woodshop or automotive repair class is a fantastic thing for high schools to offer, but I don't think it's right to eliminate theater or music programs to pay for that.

Admittedly though, the NEA put out a report in 2012 urging further development and emphasis of vocational training in schools. Such behavior could be an overreaction to that advice. This may just be the education pendulum swinging in a different direction.