World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[BoringSupreez]

And Ack my ex was very liberal. But when she was from the most liberal Muslim country (turkey) and she couldn't wear a skirt in the bus without a lot of men trying to see you get skirt, then I think we have a major problem.

You have a single perspective on that country, at that time. Again, it's one personal example. I've known Pakistanis that had no problem with women in skirts, Egyptians who never covered themselves, and Iranians who loved showing off the red light districts in Belgium. My personal experiences with Islam have been very different from your own. That's why I'm not willing to say the entire religion is problematic. I will happily concede there are problems within it and passages of the Qur'an that are horribly misogynist, but I also understand that different people will interpret the Qur'an in different ways. You might consider also different religious groups within Islam, such as Wahhabism in Sunni Islam.

Also, Turkey's status as "most liberal Muslim country" is debatable, especially considering the platform of Prime Minister Erdogan.

Which one would you say is more liberal then?

Wasn't the context of your doing this as US military personnel?

Yes, to an allied nation, not Iraq or Afghanistan.

Yeah, "ally." So is Pakistan.

But the reason I mentioned it was actually because I wanted folks to realize the context of peoples interaction and personal beliefs. Your exposure to Islam was via the US military. But Prfsnl...well, you mentioned he was willing to give Muslim refugees in Germany a "shadow of a doubt." That makes sense to me though, because Prfsnl is a lawyer from the United States. "A shadow of a doubt" is the basis from which he views the framework of the world.

I did not know that, about prfsnl_gmr anyway. Turkey's part of NATO though, they're held to a higher standard. I've always known Pakistan is just a necessary evil.

Mediocre attempt at dodging right here. Just give me a URL backing up what you're saying, or... I guess you can throw pejoratives at me like on of those college protestors.

I think that you are asking me to prove a negative, but whatever...I am sure that anything I put in front of you will have some kind of "liberal feminist bias" or some other such nonsense that discredits it completely. I am likewise sure you will find a plethora of fear-mongering articles confirming your biases and refuting anything I put in front of you (and, in doing so, demonstrating a complete ignorance of statistical analysis or econometrics).

So, your real-life job is to argue in favor of someone even when you know your client is in the wrong... explains the discussion so far.

But yes, I am going to dispute the validity of your article. There is in fact reason to believe that crimes committed by refugees have been under reported. The Cologne police chief just lost his job over claims that he attempted to hide the role of refugees in the attack, hence the multi-day delay in reporting. For some reason the German government wants to downplay the negative effects of Islamic immigration.

Oh, now this is gold. Sig'd.

It is. Please preserve it so that people know who they're dealing with when they argue with me. (Can I quote your statement equating Islam with Nazism?)

I would be flattered.

[prfsnl_gmr]

So, your real-life job is to argue in favor of someone even when you know your client is in the wrong... explains the discussion so far.

No. My real-life job is making sure my clients follow the law and do the right thing.

But yes, I am going to dispute the validity of your article.

I knew it!

For some reason the German government wants to downplay the negative effects of Islamic immigration.

Maybe...just maybe...it's...Germany's blind, unquestioning dedication to:

so-called "progressive," leftist, feminist, tolerant, etc. policies

<GASP!>

(Can I quote your statement equating Islam with Nazism?)

I would be flattered.

I think that pretty much sums it up. You have played your hand, and I can't really argue anything else. I also really do have work to get to today, and I will have to let some of our other members take the laboring oar at this point.

[BoringSupreez]

So, your real-life job is to argue in favor of someone even when you know your client is in the wrong... explains the discussion so far.

No. My real-life job is making sure my clients follow the law and do the right thing.

But yes, I am going to dispute the validity of your article.

I knew it!

For some reason the German government wants to downplay the negative effects of Islamic immigration.

Maybe...just maybe...it's...Germany's blind, unquestioning dedication to:

so-called "progressive," leftist, feminist, tolerant, etc. policies

<GASP!>

(Can I quote your statement equating Islam with Nazism?)

I would be flattered.

I think that pretty much sums it up. You have played your hand, and I can't really argue anything else. I also really do have work to get to today, and I will have to let some of our other members take the laboring oar at this point.

More arrogance and self-righteousness, insulting my views while making no counterpoints of your own... looks like your own hand ran out about a page ago. Nice bluff.

All right, have a good day at work.

[Ack]

And Ack my ex was very liberal. But when she was from the most liberal Muslim country (turkey) and she couldn't wear a skirt in the bus without a lot of men trying to see you get skirt, then I think we have a major problem.

You have a single perspective on that country, at that time. Again, it's one personal example. I've known Pakistanis that had no problem with women in skirts, Egyptians who never covered themselves, and Iranians who loved showing off the red light districts in Belgium. My personal experiences with Islam have been very different from your own. That's why I'm not willing to say the entire religion is problematic. I will happily concede there are problems within it and passages of the Qur'an that are horribly misogynist, but I also understand that different people will interpret the Qur'an in different ways. You might consider also different religious groups within Islam, such as Wahhabism in Sunni Islam.

Also, Turkey's status as "most liberal Muslim country" is debatable, especially considering the platform of Prime Minister Erdogan.

Which one would you say is more liberal then?

Yes, to an allied nation, not Iraq or Afghanistan.

Yeah, "ally." So is Pakistan.

But the reason I mentioned it was actually because I wanted folks to realize the context of peoples interaction and personal beliefs. Your exposure to Islam was via the US military. But Prfsnl...well, you mentioned he was willing to give Muslim refugees in Germany a "shadow of a doubt." That makes sense to me though, because Prfsnl is a lawyer from the United States. "A shadow of a doubt" is the basis from which he views the framework of the world.

I did not know that, about prfsnl_gmr anyway. Turkey's part of NATO though, they're held to a higher standard. I've always known Pakistan is just a necessary evil.

I actually view Turkey's joining NATO as more of a necessary evil, solely important because of their key geographic position. Since they're the gateway between Europe and Asia, they have access to both the best and the worst and make sense as part of the military alliance guarding Europe. It doesn't mean we have to like it though. Truth be told, I'm generally more impressed with the Kurds.

I'd argue Kuwait, UAE, and Jordan are all better off than Turkey, and at times Egypt and even Iran(pre-revolution) have experienced periods of liberalism. Iran is now sitting in a weird existence as portions of its society have slowly liberalized again while other vast portions remain ultra-conservative in their views. Portions of Lebanon are quite liberal too, though Hezbollah's influence is ever present.

Indonesia is also a country that should be considered, because while it contains hardline elements that argue for the imposition of sharia law, election data(even solely from Muslim voters) show that this group is a minority lacking widespread support.

While these countries aren't necessarily as liberal as Western cultures, they're still much more liberal than many of their neighbors. It's also worth noting though that all of these countries swing between liberal and conservative elements over time for various reasons, be they political, cultural, or religious. For instance, Saudi Arabia is much more conservative due to the influence of Wahhabism. While there aren't nearly as many Wahhabists compared to overall Sunni and Shia populations, Saudi Arabia's economic influence has helped fuel the ultraconservative interpretations of Sunni Islam. Shia Islam, meanwhile, receives the support of Iran's conservative elements.

[prfsnl_gmr]

More arrogance and self-righteousness, insulting my views while making no counterpoints of your own... looks like your own hand ran out about a page ago. Nice bluff.

When someone proudly equates Islam and Nazism, there really isn't anything I can do to "insult" his or her views. Counterpoints are likewise entirely unnecessary.

(I also don't know what I'm bluffing about...You really should treat people as individuals!)

All right, have a good day at work.

You too.

[puke_face]

You know what this thread needs? A little bit of love and some tenderness.

[Pulsar_t]

Mystics have the ability to see the beauty in all of creation, I envy them that quality. Rumi was fucking awesome.

[prfsnl_gmr]

Mystics have the ability to see the beauty in all of creation, I envy them that quality. Rumi was fucking awesome.

YES! I am a mystic!!!! 8+ constitution modifier!!!!

[Pulsar_t]

If you look at poo and it instills feelings of revulsion and little else, you're no mystic Speaking of Rumi, what I read about him paints him as a diehard liberal according to islamic standards. He drank and had a same-sex affair.. Cultures and ideas are products of their times and circumstances.

[ZeroAX]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35265002

"Officials feared Borderlife by Dorit Rabinyan could encourage relationships between Jews and Arabs."


Yeah, I mean why would we want anything that might heal the wounds between two really damaged communities?

Keeping the "racial purity" is just way more important. Gee, I wander which past European regime had the same mindset