World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[BoringSupreez]

31 suspects arrested, 18 are refugees.

So...13 of them (42%) were German citizens? These numbers really aren't showing that refugees - who, according to you, had to be taught German phrases to commit the crimes - have much higher rate of criminality.

58% of the attackers were refugees. There are around a million refugees in Germany. Germany has over 80 million citizens. 42% were citizens. Seems pretty obvious to me.

Moreover - and if the refugees really had to be taught German phrases to commit these crimes - I very much doubt that they are the ones who organized the atacks.

Ever heard of Google translate? It's popular with the kids these days.

The burden of proof is on the one making the assertions BTW. I've dumped like 8 sources into this discussion thus far, please provide one of your own.

Just quit while you're behind.

No. Please stop. I did not want to say it in my previous post, but everything you write here comes across as an attempt to justify your own bigotry. (I live in the South. My forebears were racists. I know what it looks like when people do this.) You cherry-pick facts to match your worldview, and you ignore those that do not mesh with it. (It is called cognitive dissonance, and I often think it is the most powerful force on the planet.)

Finally, I have several close friends who are Muslim or are from majority-Muslim countries. They are, without exception, good, honest, law-abiding people. (Otherwise, they would not be my friends.) Nonetheless, I have seen them discriminated against and hurt by people with prejudices similar to those which you are displaying here. (Before being rejected for a position, one of my friends was asked during a job interview whether he knew Osama Bin Laden.) It is very hurtful to me to see good people treated this way and lumped together with criminals and terrorists merely because the criminals and terrorists purport to practice the same religion.

Accordingly, I hope that you will approach this discussion with an open mind. (You can't really "win" it.) And, I hope that you will learn something from it. I also hope that, someday, you will have the opportunity to know some fine Muslim men and women as I have known them, and that they will relive you of your prejudices.

This is some astounding feigned moral superiority right here. I could slice it like a cake.

Perhaps you will one day leave you first world suburb and live in a nation where Muslims make up over 50% of the population... Maybe you too will learn something.

I've never once stated that all Muslims are evil, but I stand by my assertion that a high enough percentage of them are that it is best to treat them as a single group, for purposes of immigration exclusion.

[prfsnl_gmr]

Perhaps you will one day leave you first world suburb and live in a nation where Muslims make up over 50% of the population... Maybe you too will learn something.

I have, and I learned not to make assumptions about people.

[Ack]

Perhaps you will one day leave you first world suburb and live in a nation where Muslims make up over 50% of the population... Maybe you too will learn something.

Wasn't the context of your doing this as US military personnel?

[prfsnl_gmr]

The burden of proof is on the one making the assertions BTW.

I am probably not the person you should be lecturing about the burden of proof...

I've dumped like 8 sources into this discussion thus far, please provide one of your own.

Yes, and none of them say anything that justifies your bigotry. (It isn't the amount of the evidence, it's the quality.)

This is some astounding feigned moral superiority right here.

There is nothing feigned about it. What I wrote is a display of actual moral superiority.

I could slice it like a cake.

You are really overestimating your reasoning skills. Just quit while you're behind.

[ZeroAX]

I just need to say again (because again, tribalism, and apparently there's no way someone liberal can also be judgemental of something the left supports) I in no way treat Muslims differently, nor thing that refugees shouldn't be allowed in, or that they should be blamed for crimes.i am just very judgemental of Islam as an ideology.

And Ack my ex was very liberal. But when she was from the most liberal Muslim country (turkey) and she couldn't wear a skirt in the bus without a lot of men trying to see you get skirt, then I think we have a major problem.

Is it so wrong for you guys to say that what the Koran preaches when it comes to women is bullshit? Because that's all I'm saying, and yet all I get is denial because it's politically incorrect

[BoringSupreez]

You seem very eager to give these people the shadow of the doubt.

PRO-TIP: If you learn to stop yourself from making generalizations about "these people" or "those people," you will be better able to assess your own prejudices.

Our own FBI director admitted we can't properly screen refugees. If we can't vet them as individuals, the next best thing is to treat them as a group.

Perhaps you will one day leave you first world suburb and live in a nation where Muslims make up over 50% of the population... Maybe you too will learn something.

Wasn't the context of your doing this as US military personnel?

Yes, to an allied nation, not Iraq or Afghanistan.

[dsheinem]

I just need to say again (because again, tribalism, and apparently there's no way someone liberal can also be judgemental of something the left supports) I in no way treat Muslims differently, nor thing that refugees shouldn't be allowed in, or that they should be blamed for crimes.i am just very judgemental of Islam as an ideology.

And Ack my ex was very liberal. But when she was from the most liberal Muslim country (turkey) and she couldn't wear a skirt in the bus without a lot of men trying to see you get skirt, then I think we have a major problem.

Is it so wrong for you guys to say that what the Koran preaches when it comes to women is bullshit? Because that's all I'm saying, and yet all I get is denial because it's politically incorrect

I agree that what the Quaran says about women is BS. So do plenty of Muslims. Fundamentalism, of all stripes, is a scourge.

Nothing I've said has anything to do with "treatment of blacks" in America, either, by the way.

[BoringSupreez]

The burden of proof is on the one making the assertions BTW.

I am probably not the person you should be lecturing about the burden of proof...

I've dumped like 8 sources into this discussion thus far, please provide one of your own.

Yes, and none of them say anything that justifies your bigotry. (It isn't the amount of the evidence, it's the quality.)

Mediocre attempt at dodging right here. Just give me a URL backing up what you're saying, or... I guess you can throw pejoratives at me like one of those college protestors.

This is some astounding feigned moral superiority right here.

There is nothing feigned about it. What I wrote is a display of actual moral superiority.

Oh, now this is gold. Sig'd.

[Ack]

And Ack my ex was very liberal. But when she was from the most liberal Muslim country (turkey) and she couldn't wear a skirt in the bus without a lot of men trying to see you get skirt, then I think we have a major problem.

You have a single perspective on that country, at that time. Again, it's one personal example. I've known Pakistanis that had no problem with women in skirts, Egyptians who never covered themselves, and Iranians who loved showing off the red light districts in Belgium. My personal experiences with Islam have been very different from your own. That's why I'm not willing to say the entire religion is problematic. I will happily concede there are problems within it and passages of the Qur'an that are horribly misogynist, but I also understand that different people will interpret the Qur'an in different ways. You might consider also different religious groups within Islam, such as Wahhabism in Sunni Islam.

Also, Turkey's status as "most liberal Muslim country" is debatable, especially considering the platform of Prime Minister Erdogan.

Wasn't the context of your doing this as US military personnel?

Yes, to an allied nation, not Iraq or Afghanistan.

Yeah, "ally." So is Pakistan.

But the reason I mentioned it was actually because I wanted folks to realize the context of peoples interaction and personal beliefs. Your exposure to Islam was via the US military. But Prfsnl...well, you mentioned he was willing to give Muslim refugees in Germany a "shadow of a doubt." That makes sense to me though, because Prfsnl is a lawyer from the United States. "A shadow of a doubt" is the basis from which he views the framework of the world.

[prfsnl_gmr]

Mediocre attempt at dodging right here. Just give me a URL backing up what you're saying, or... I guess you can throw pejoratives at me like on of those college protestors.

I do not know how to "prove" that you should treat people as individuals, and I think that you are asking me to prove a negative, but whatever...I am sure that anything I put in front of you will have some kind of "liberal feminist bias" or some other such nonsense that discredits it completely. I am likewise sure you will find a plethora of fear-mongering articles confirming your biases and refuting anything I put in front of you (and, in doing so, demonstrating a complete ignorance of statistical analysis or econometrics).

Oh, now this is gold. Sig'd.

It's platinum. Please preserve it so that people know who they're dealing with when they argue with me. (Can I quote your statement equating Islam with Nazism?)