1983 IBM XT 5160

[Exhuminator]

It isn't until near the end of the 80's that DOS really came into its own as a proper platform.

You are exactly right, and it had everything to do with this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_memory

[feamatar]

The biggest problem with PCs from this era was the lack of games being made. You might find a couple of gems but nothing really worth noting. Apple II/C64 was dominating during this era and really is the best place for games. PCs took a couple of years to come into their own. Nice machine though

Yeah, pre-DOS there wasn't really much, and even after DOS the PC port frequently was an afterthought compared to the Apple II or Amiga release. It isn't until near the end of the 80's that DOS really came into its own as a proper platform.

I would argue that it was a platform of grognards and office people in the early days. In the US there was not much Amiga presence, so after the height of the C64, the PC dominated clearly(by 1987). In the early days it had Flight Simulator, King's Quest and all the Infocom titles. From the C64 SSI, LucasArts, Sierra and Microprose moved to the PC first, and in addition they translated their titles to other 16bit platforms.

[feamatar]

It isn't until near the end of the 80's that DOS really came into its own as a proper platform.

You are exactly right, and it had everything to do with this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_memory

Why? I think even Wing Commander would start on 1meg of RAM

[Exhuminator]

Why? I think even Wing Commander would start on 1meg of RAM

Well Wing Commander came out in 1990, when expanded memory was only just starting to take hold. By 1992 with popular DOS games such as Ultima Underworld, the memory requirements had changed dramatically since that old 640 standby.

[feamatar]

Well Wing Commander came out in 1990, when expanded memory was only just starting to take hold. By 1992 with popular DOS games such as Ultima Underworld, the memory requirements had changed dramatically since that old 640 standby.

What you say is true, but the question was when it came to its own proper platform. And I say that it was well before memory management was a problem. SSI, LucasArts, Sierra, Spectrum Holobyte, Papyrus started to target the PC as the main platform after the C64 or in case of Sierra, the PC was always their main platform. In the US the C64 was kind of a legacy system by 1988, games sales were fed by its large install base. But in 1988 a pimped up TurboXT, with an 8088 at 8MHz, with 640kb RAM and 20MB HDD and EGA card and a 360k disc drive was an affordable thing and probably the best gaming platform if you were into strategy/adventure/role playing games or simulations.

[Exhuminator]

What you say is true, but the question was when it came to its own proper platform. And I say that it was well before memory management was a problem. SSI, LucasArts, Sierra, Spectrum Holobyte, Papyrus started to target the PC as the main platform after the C64 or in case of Sierra, the PC was always their main platform. In the US the C64 was kind of a legacy system by 1988, games sales were fed by its large install base. But in 1988 a pimped up TurboXT, with an 8088 at 8MHz, with 640kb RAM and 20MB HDD and EGA card and a 360k disc drive was an affordable thing and probably the best gaming platform if you were into strategy/adventure/role playing games or simulations.

I am not sure which factor, out of all those factors, you are attributing to being the primary reason DOS as a gaming platform took off in the late 80s.

[BoneSnapDeez]

The biggest problem with PCs from this era was the lack of games being made. You might find a couple of gems but nothing really worth noting. Apple II/C64 was dominating during this era and really is the best place for games. PCs took a couple of years to come into their own. Nice machine though

A few years ago I got a bunch of free computers off a guy on craigslist.

I kept the Commodore / Radio Shack / Texas Instruments stuff but gave away all the old IBM-compatible hardware. It took up tons of space and there was literally nothing interesting I could do with it gaming wise.

[feamatar]

I am not sure which factor, out of all those factors, you are attributing to being the primary reason DOS as a gaming platform took off in the late 80s.

Actually none of those. The thing that made it the primary platform is that it was a widespread utility device. Similarly the only reason why games were made for the C64 even in the late 80s was its enormous userbase.

I have a few magazine scans, and there are quite a few things surprising to see:
Byte in 1982 January reviewed the IBM PC and by 1985 they became a largely PC magazine, is it any wonder? Apple failed with the III and the Lisa, while basically after the C64 Commodore did not really had any new product, TI quit, Tandy started to make compatibles, and Atari went bankrupt. In the meanwhile everyone produced software and accessories for the PC, because it was expandable, it was open and it was capable enough. And later, in 1985 The Tandy 1000 was one of the first mostly IBM compatibles that reached the critical price point to be cheap enough for the masses.

And in my opinion this was one critical point: it was affordable, it run Lotus 1-2-3, all the Infocom titles, King's Quest and Flight Simulator. A businessman's wet dream.
Imagine you go shopping in Christmans 1985, you see that awesome boing ball demo on the Amiga, and say that wow it is really cool and you tell the salesman I would like to take this and WordPerfect. And he just says I am sorry Sir, but there is no real compatible text editor for the Amiga.

So in 1985 Computer Gaming World started to review PC games, because there were many PCs, and many costumers who also wanted to play games. In Europe that was not the case, the first time when Computer and Video Games started to review PC games was much later. The alternatives had a chance there because the PC did not have the same market share.

The PC had more RAM than the C64, which was needed for the Quest games so none of those were ported. That was one big reason to get an IBM PC for gaming in the 80s.
And you could get Might and Magic I, which was not available on the Amiga for example.
Or Pool Of Radiance? Not released on the Amiga until 1990. Falcon? It was avaible on the Amiga only around the time when Falcon AT was released.Falcon? Pirates? PC: 1987, Amiga 1990. Battlehawks 1942? 1988 on PC, 1989 on Amiga. All in all why? Small userbase for the Amiga in the US, so US companies preferred the PC, while in EU that was not the case.

And sure, in many cases, the Amiga ports were better(Falcon on the Amiga is awesome), but that not necessarily compensate the delay and uncertainty,if a port gets ever released,back in the day.

Jim Leonard's youtube page clearly shows some awesome display of the original PC
Flight Simulator 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnwmowdUayc
Indianapolis 500!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoupLHJ9GtQ

Then there is this video from a different author of a clone XT with a 10MHz 8088 with VGA and Sound Blaster, now that is a killer config:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzum0M97PaY

And what was the last nail in the coffin of the Atari ST and the Amiga when the 12MHz 286 went cheap in 1989 and later the 16MHz one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_ZEWvokp3o

[Exhuminator]

The PC had more RAM than the C64, which was needed for the Quest games so none of those were ported. That was one big reason to get an IBM PC for gaming in the 80s.

Yes, the RAM was a big reason. More RAM meant more complex business software and games, as well as easier programming for the devs. This trend was exemplified when extended memory became available for DOS (HIMEM.SYS and XMS).

There are surely multiple reasons why DOS became the primary computer gaming platform of the late 80s and up until the mid-90s. But in my opinion, its memory capabilities are the primary reason which set the operating system ahead of the competition at that time. You might remember that memory management was a big deal back then. Just one example to refresh your nostalgia:

https://books.google.com/books?id=KT0EA ... &q&f=false

Now I'm not saying you're all wrong or anything either, just explaining my stance. You've made some good points and you obviously do know what you're talking about. I appreciate the complexity of your earlier reply. However I know that the Amiga and C64 did have business software, flight simulators, and games all on their respective platforms. What they didn't have were the powerful memory capabilities that DOS acquired.

[Anapan]

There's some pretty decent games that will run fine on in an 8088 pc with CGA.

Some off the top of my head:
Commander Keen 4, Eye of the Beholder, Bubble Bobble, Prince of Persia, Zeliard, Super Contra, Die Hard, Lemmings, Stunts, Super Off Road, Oregon Trail, Silpheed, Sim City, Star Control, Firewhawk: Thexder the 2nd, Ultima 4, ZZT, Ultima 4, Tunneler, Nethack, Zaxxon...

There's apps to play MOD and MIDI through the PC speaker pretty impressively too.


Any idea what video card the guy put in it?