Superficial play vs Deep play

[Erik_Twice]

A few weeks ago I beat my first beat'em up and it made me realize that I hadn't really taken the genre seriously until then. I played them in a superficial manner, going through the motions instead of truly understanding what made them click. And this meant I wasn't having as much fun.

I think this is actually very common and happens to all of us to some degree. After all, taking games this seriously requires a lot of work and often we just want to relax so we settle for a smaller slice of the fun. Retro games suffer specially from this because they are all pretty hard and often were designed with the idea that you would put a lot of time into them (Eg.Myst).

I don't quite know where I'm going with this so here are a couple random thoughts:

- A friend of mine I used to play Pump it Up with has been getting hard into it again. I like playing with her, but it also made me realize that I was never going to be as good as I was before because that would require far, far more time than I'm willing to put into it. This makes me enjoy the game less than I used to.

- I've been thinking about setting up my wheel and playing Daytona USA but to enjoy the game fully you have to learn how to drift on each curve and I don't think I have the drive to do that on my own, it feels lonely.

- I can play beat'em ups on the go in short bursts which is not true of other games. I think this is the main reason I'm getting into the genre so much: I found a way to minimize the workload while still being serious about them.

Any comments on this?

[Cronozilla]

This is how I feel about most fighting games. The technique is usually lost on me.

I really enjoy RTS games from time to time, as well, but am completely ignorant of the way they're "suppose to" be played. As a result, I lose, a lot.

The type of game that reflects my disinterest in learning (i.e. putting up with) different play styles the most is vs FPS. I couldn't care less. The entire idea of what you're doing in those situations is completely unappealing. There's only three cases where I haven't felt this way about this type of game: Day of Defeat, Battlefield 1942, and Unreal Tournament 2KALL

However, I feel this way about all of these because in all the times I've tried them, I've never had a supportive game playing environment. Either it's online, which is just straight vitriol over peen points or it's 'friends' being complete ass-faces after nagging you to try it out.

Chances are if I hadn't had the experiences I had, I probably would have put time into them.

[CFFJR]

I'm glad to hear you're having some fun in the world of beat em ups.

Meandering talk:

I think there's room for both styles of play. I also think that genre enthusiasts of all kinds often need to chill out a bit in terms of the "correct" way to play.

Teasing aside, you can enjoy a style of game without devoting huge chunks of your life to it. I don't think you need to be capable of issuing 150 commands per minute (or whatever the pro average is) in order to enjoy a game of Starcraft. Sure, you likely won't be able to play it competitively, but that doesn't mean you aren't worthy of the game.

You can also have an understanding of a game's mechanics without mastering it.

Crono mentioned fighting games, and that's a good example for myself as well. I love fighting games, and I'm pretty decent at a few of them. But I will never be a frame counting, mind gaming, match up memorizing combo master. I don't have the interest to devote that kind of time to it, but I truly enjoy playing at my level while appreciating just how damn good the high level players are.

I feel similarly about shmups. I enjoy playing them for both survival and for score, but my skills, such as they are, are minimal and I'll never be a superplayer (or even a good one by most standards). Though it sure blows my mind to watch those folks at work while they completely wreck the shit out of some blisteringly difficult bullet hell.

Give me a platformer though, and I'll kick some ass.

Anyway, the way I see it, any game worth its salt will be flexible enough to stand up to both casual and dedicated play.

[TSTR]

Well said.

[Erik_Twice]

However, I feel this way about all of these because in all the times I've tried them, I've never had a supportive game playing environment.

I think many posters have said that being able to discuss the games they play on the "What are you playing?", "Games Beaten" and "Together Retro" threads have really helped them to have more fun so I really think a supportive game environment helps a lot.

Teasing aside, you can enjoy a style of game without devoting huge chunks of your life to it. I don't think you need to be capable of issuing 150 commands per minute (or whatever the pro average is) in order to enjoy a game of Starcraft. Sure, you likely won't be able to play it competitively, but that doesn't mean you aren't worthy of the game.

I don't think it's a matter of being worthy as much as it is a matter of engaing with the game at a sufficient level for it to shine.

For example, I thinK Starcraft is more interesting and more fun if you know what each unit does than if you don't. And that Street Fighter is more interesting and more fun if you use your attacks tactically instead of hitting buttons randomly. Or (more controversially), that aiming for a 1CC produces better results than credit feeding.

So yeah, ultimately, I think some ways of playing are better than others but the best ways to do so often require an amount of work that we might not be willing or capable to provide.

[Ghegs]

- I've been thinking about setting up my wheel and playing Daytona USA but to enjoy the game fully you have to learn how to drift on each curve and I don't think I have the drive to do that on my own, it feels lonely.

Pardon the advertisement, but we have an active time attack thread for Daytona USA over at Rolling Start, as well as a pretty in-depth guide on how the drifting mechanics work in the game. So you don't have to go at it alone.

[Tanooki]

I think there's room for both styles of play. I also think that genre enthusiasts of all kinds often need to chill out a bit in terms of the "correct" way to play.

I know that was a tease, but some game franchises and genres have backed themselves into a design corner where that is the ONLY way to play or you fail. A spectacular example of that is how the RTS designs have changed from the Dune/C&C/Warcraft1+2 days to the middle of that with the middling C&C games and Warcraft along with starcraft to now the modern style of Starcraft 2.

They've driven themselves to where you have to basically fail a heap until you figure out the weird AI and pathing designed into each stage to deal with an eventual onslaught of hell coming your way. The games now tend to force only certain development and placement of specifics of you end up on an unknown path to death. I love the style but have been cut off from it since around starcraft 1 popped up as it just made no sense after the first half dozen stages. Even cheating using cash codes it still would be a horrid fast grind from hell trying not to get mauled building up some army. Yet others can just laugh and mop it up in moments because they're part of that hive mind who get the way those games are setup. Sometimes you just have to be an overkill enthusiast and read every block of text out there to play it the correct way as some games won't allow creative thought or approach anymore as they'll make you suffer and fail for it.

[strangenova]

I feel this way about rpgs these days. I love the genre but I don't have the time or will to sink dozens of hours into them.
I usually play for about ten hours, enough to time feel out the battle system and enjoy myself but after that its back to short games.
Out of curiosity what beat em up did you beat?

[Erik_Twice]

Pardon the advertisement, but we have an active time attack thread for Daytona USA over at Rolling Start, as well as a pretty in-depth guide on how the drifting mechanics work in the game. So you don't have to go at it alone.

I actually thought of you guys when I say that so I'm flattered you went out of your way to drop a link to me

If I had a steering wheel I would try to drop by, love the stuff you are doing with Rolling Start and lurk ocasionally

Out of curiosity what beat em up did you beat?

Streets of Rage 2. Probably not a huge achivement as the game is quite easy. I'm working on Final Fight now.

[Blu]

I like this thread.

There's some posts that truly resonate with me. Crono's points about RTS, I have similar thoughts about. I cannot balance the deep mechanics that are required for the competitive scene. It's hard for me to multitask (in Starcraft talk, Macro and Micro, APM, etc) within the games to truly be good. That said, I love watching tournaments and highlights and admire how people are able to play the genre. I particularly just enjoy building up an army and sending it out to lay waste to everything in my path.

Some first-person shooters I do enjoy just for leisure. This most recent Halo online experience is something excellent, but I think it still needs to balance. There's several new mechanics to manage, such as dashing + melee, hovering, boosted side-steps and new weapons that all have quirks and intricacies. That's where the fine tuning comes in and simply, that's a lot to learn to keep up and be good. I don't plan on being too competitive, so I just really enjoy it for leisure, rather than ranking or being the best. Thank heavens there's different tiers of matchmaking at least.

Hearthstone is a good example of a genre where I understand most of the mechanics at play, while following the meta that exists when playing ranked matches in the community. It's pretty interesting while also not being so convoluted and complicated that I'm deterred from learning and honing my play.

I like being taught and learning from experience, that's what's helpful. I miss sitting down with others and hearing strategies of how to conquer a game, discussing different roles, etc. One of the first times I learned about different planes in beat-em-ups, my outlook on the genre changed drastically and I was able to navigate through those much better.