rockshard is a joke (Troll on the Sonic topic)

[racketboy]

I don't usually go off on comment trolls, but this guy is a loon...

In response to my recent posts:
http://www.racketboy.com/retro/2006/12/ ... gehog.html
http://www.racketboy.com/retro/2006/12/ ... -back.html


He writes...

""Make Sonic Fast" Oh really? Honestly, the Sonic games as of late are more than fast enough. The only, I say the ONLY game you can make a case for is Sonic The Hedgehog on Xbox 360 because that game is significantly slower than the rest. But it's still very fast. The extremities of the sense of speed is hardly the real issue here, not nearly as much as better level design and polish.

"Emphasize Reaction Time With Two Dimensions" This is pure madness. Sonic emphasizes reaction time in 3D as it is. This is just pushing for Sonic to go back into 2D just for the sake of it.

"Make Electrifying Bonus Rounds" This is a testament to how shallow Sonic critics are, and proof that they just want to have the old games repackaged. The bonus games aren't needed anymore. And the new game has snowboarding and mach speed sections anyway. Oh wait, they suck!

"Make Monster Robotnik Bosses"
Another shallow complaint grounded in principle. Hey, listen, pretty much no game nowadays offers such simple draws and perks to it. Not even Mario, I mean, they lost the koopa kids and there is no boss system or hierarchy either. Why single out Sonic? Sonic is one of the most old-fashioned styles of games out there with its linear structure and emphasis on points. Sonic critics are ungrateful and shallow.

"Bring Sonic Back to Mobius"
Sonic was always on a fantastic variation of Earth. Mobius is a manifestation of localization (just like the name "Robotnik") and the comics. So I take it that the real complaint is...

"Have Creative Level Designs With Personality"
That is such garbage. You can't play Radical Train, Egg Cerberus, Mephiles, Kingdom Valley, Crisis City, Hang Castle, Rail Canyon, etc etc, and tell me that these stages aren't exploding with flavor and personality and attitude. You just want the Sonic games to be kiddy and less realistic. You're unwilling to appreciate how amazing the designs in the new games are.

"Limit The Amount of Playable Characters"
"Don't Let Sonic Talk"
Sick. Let's completely disregarded the advances the series and technology has made since 1991. Why? Just to fulfill the cold principles of artless gamers who want their old games to be repackaged.

I always had a disdain for Sonic critics but this article is a level of elitism I didn't still existed. You basically called every difference between the old games and new, good or bad, and made it a complaint.

I hope every Sonic game that ever comes out from now on has 10+ characters, guns, vehicles, cities, humans, and plenty of dialogue. Frankly, you just don't deserve the satisfaction."

then...

"Sonic is awesome. The multimedia revolution did great for Sonic, the new characters and dialogue gave an explosive dose of flavor to the franchise that the originals couldn't. The only reason it's criticized is because of jaded oldschool critics who hate anything with a voice attached to it.

Anyone can clearly see that Sonic Adventure 2 improved upon the first in almost every respect. Sonic Adventure 2 was all but perfect and the main flaw in it was that there was simply not enough of Sonic in it and the stages didn't feel long enough.

That's where Heroes comes in. Heroes is criticized a lot but I wish more people can appreciate the fact that the game is very long and the stages are massive. Unlike Sonic Adventure games, the gameplay was consistent from start to finish. After Heroes, it was easy to see how Sonic had a great future ahead of him at that rate.

Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush are a joke. In general these games have mindless stages, hyperactive gameplay with cruel difficulty, no margin of response time, and horrible spriting and music. The only reason they are liked is because they are 2D and they don't have guns in it.

Anyone can point out that it's "wierd" to see Sonic next to humans. Why cant people suspend their disbelief. That's the problem with the 'majority of hardcore fans' as the article describes them. They're jaded assholes with a lack of perspective. They're through and through gamers who lost their sense of taste long ago. All these people know about cool is how to not be too cool to the extent that it looks bad. It's pathetic.

Sonic is only criticized for being different.

And way to go on failing to point out any of the great things about Sonic The Hedgehog on Xbox 360."

and then again...

I have played games since SNES. Super Mario World was the first game we owned and beat. I played Sonic 2 at my friend's and at Blockbuster. I eventually had Sonic Jam for Saturn years before the Dreamcast.

So I know what I'm talking about. I'm not some graphics tart. I was there to see Sonic evolve from his roots. I reponded with awe and excitement. I loved Sonic Adventure a lot. Sure, in retrospect it's not that good. But Sonic Adventure 2 nailed it by making longer and more complete and consistent stages. With SA2, 3D Sonic was truly competing with the classics. But the sensation of Sonic in 3D is irreplaceable. SA2 was simply smooth. Then, Sonic Heroes doubled the length of the stages. I was almost certain that Sonic had a bright future.

I say this because I think the perspective is lost. Sonic is criticized on misconceived principles. This article is the biggest proof I have ever seen.

Let me recap. The article doesn't say "get better voice actors" or "write better dialogue". It says "kill Sonic's voice". It's completely outrageous. And rather than putting forward any ideas on making a better 3D Sonic, by making more expansive levels or bring the sense of momentum to the controls... no let's make it side-scrolling.

Sonic critics can pump out articles and blogs like this like an assembly line. I'm sure then even haven't played the new game yet but rather waited on the "inevitable" bad reviews as an excuse to push Sonic back to the stone age, efforts that are probably doing more good than harm.

I don't intend to be elitest or anything to those younger folk that are just used to 3D/Voice Acting games. But when they start spouting off like a little know-it-all, it irks me.

I'm actually going to delete him comments (because I hate trolls) and my response to him. As clever as I thought my response was, I like to be thought of as a nice guy

[Zalphier]

or edit is post, saying "post edited for being a noob."
Now, I like the new Sonic games, but I agree that the old ones we're great too. While I agree with him on some areas, most of it is him being a leet a$$ mutha bleep.

[metaleggman]

Eh, he did say a couple of things that are true. I'm not saying he wasn't being arguementative for the sake of being arguementative, but still they seem to check out with me. I may not be a mod, but i've experianced plenty of trolls over the past few years i've been using the internet (It feels much longer, but in actuality, it's only been like 4 or so) and this one doesn't seem to bad. I skimmed over his arguements and unless there were some blarant bashing, they just seem to be his opinions.

[racketboy]

or edit is post, saying "post edited for being a noob."
Now, I like the new Sonic games, but I agree that the old ones we're great too. While I agree with him on some areas, most of it is him being a leet a$$ mutha bleep.

Unfortunately the Blogger software only lets me delete, not edit.

I don't mind people expressing their thoughts, but the attitude drive me nuts.
I've see worse trolls too, but when its on my own site, I take it a bit more personal.

[racketboy]

I'm bored, so I'll break down his arguments one by one

""Make Sonic Fast" Oh really? Honestly, the Sonic games as of late are more than fast enough. The only, I say the ONLY game you can make a case for is Sonic The Hedgehog on Xbox 360 because that game is significantly slower than the rest. But it's still very fast. The extremities of the sense of speed is hardly the real issue here, not nearly as much as better level design and polish.

No, the new games aren't fast enough. Honestly, unless its almost to the point of being beyond comprehension, it's not fast enough :p
The upcoming Wii game (from what I've seen so far) look especially slow.

"Emphasize Reaction Time With Two Dimensions" This is pure madness. Sonic emphasizes reaction time in 3D as it is. This is just pushing for Sonic to go back into 2D just for the sake of it."

Pure madness I don't consider it a test of my reaction time when I can see my opponent/obstacle way ahead of me and have like 2-3 seconds to react. That's what happens with an overhead view. Sure, there are some spots in the 3D games where it takes a lot of quick reactions, but not to the same extent.

"Make Electrifying Bonus Rounds" This is a testament to how shallow Sonic critics are, and proof that they just want to have the old games repackaged. The bonus games aren't needed anymore. And the new game has snowboarding and mach speed sections anyway. Oh wait, they suck!

This barely makes sense at all. How are they needed any less than before? And it has nothing to do with being repackaged. If you read my original arguments, I thought it was a great opportunity to experiment with different concepts.

"Make Monster Robotnik Bosses"
Another shallow complaint grounded in principle. Hey, listen, pretty much no game nowadays offers such simple draws and perks to it. Not even Mario, I mean, they lost the koopa kids and there is no boss system or hierarchy either. Why single out Sonic? Sonic is one of the most old-fashioned styles of games out there with its linear structure and emphasis on points. Sonic critics are ungrateful and shallow.

How is having a big boss shallow?

"Bring Sonic Back to Mobius"
Sonic was always on a fantastic variation of Earth. Mobius is a manifestation of localization (just like the name "Robotnik") and the comics. So I take it that the real complaint is...

Whether you call it Mobius or not, it would be beneficial IMO to have a universe that is more stylized. I think he missed my original point.


""Have Creative Level Designs With Personality"
That is such garbage. You can't play Radical Train, Egg Cerberus, Mephiles, Kingdom Valley, Crisis City, Hang Castle, Rail Canyon, etc etc, and tell me that these stages aren't exploding with flavor and personality and attitude. You just want the Sonic games to be kiddy and less realistic. You're unwilling to appreciate how amazing the designs in the new games are. "

Did I say that every level in every game was without personality? No. But even though the snowboarding levels and such are fun, they kinda remind me of a number of other games out there. Why not come up with something original?

"Limit The Amount of Playable Characters"
"Don't Let Sonic Talk"
Sick. Let's completely disregarded the advances the series and technology has made since 1991. Why? Just to fulfill the cold principles of artless gamers who want their old games to be repackaged.

I always had a disdain for Sonic critics but this article is a level of elitism I didn't still existed. You basically called every difference between the old games and new, good or bad, and made it a complaint.

I hope every Sonic game that ever comes out from now on has 10+ characters, guns, vehicles, cities, humans, and plenty of dialogue. Frankly, you just don't deserve the satisfaction."

So I guess we should just use technology for technology's sake? The argument can go both ways. The goal is to find a happy balance. I think technological resources could be better spent than on lousy voice acting. Even if you had GOOD voice acting, I don't think it would add to the game enough to make up for other insufficiencies.

As for that last paragraph, I'm sure it will happen and he will still buy it. Good for him.

Sonic is awesome. The multimedia revolution did great for Sonic, the new characters and dialogue gave an explosive dose of flavor to the franchise that the originals couldn't. The only reason it's criticized is because of jaded oldschool critics who hate anything with a voice attached to it.

Sonic IS awesome. I love high-end AV stuff as much as the next guy. I thought Sega CD was incredible with its enhanced soundtrack, sound effects, FMV, and such. As mentioned before, you have to find the proper balance.

Anyone can clearly see that Sonic Adventure 2 improved upon the first in almost every respect. Sonic Adventure 2 was all but perfect and the main flaw in it was that there was simply not enough of Sonic in it and the stages didn't feel long enough.

I don't deny this for the most part. IIRC, SA2 had more of the whole "looking for jewels" crap which annoyed me, but yet other than that, it was better.

That's where Heroes comes in. Heroes is criticized a lot but I wish more people can appreciate the fact that the game is very long and the stages are massive. Unlike Sonic Adventure games, the gameplay was consistent from start to finish. After Heroes, it was easy to see how Sonic had a great future ahead of him at that rate.

I agree with this for the most part, but Heroes was not without its flaws as well.
Levels were great and it did have more of a focus.

Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush are a joke. In general these games have mindless stages, hyperactive gameplay with cruel difficulty, no margin of response time, and horrible spriting and music. The only reason they are liked is because they are 2D and they don't have guns in it.

A joke? Sure, portable games have their limitations, but I wouldn't call them a joke.
From what I've played, they don't have quite the depth of the original Sonics, but they are a respectible successor.

"Anyone can point out that it's "wierd" to see Sonic next to humans. Why cant people suspend their disbelief. That's the problem with the 'majority of hardcore fans' as the article describes them. They're jaded assholes with a lack of perspective. They're through and through gamers who lost their sense of taste long ago. All these people know about cool is how to not be too cool to the extent that it looks bad. It's pathetic. "

???? Ok, kid, you can go live in whatever fantasy land you want. You can have it...

"Sonic is only criticized for being different."

Hmm... I'm not seeing that one.
I am critizing them because they aren't being different ENOUGH.
They are trying to cater to what they think is the mass market (which this kid would fall into apparently).

And way to go on failing to point out any of the great things about Sonic The Hedgehog on Xbox 360."

Well, I don't have the game, so I haven't played it. Nor did I claim to. I only mentioned the video clips and the reviews I saw.

I have played games since SNES. Super Mario World was the first game we owned and beat. I played Sonic 2 at my friend's and at Blockbuster. I eventually had Sonic Jam for Saturn years before the Dreamcast.

So I know what I'm talking about. I'm not some graphics tart. I was there to see Sonic evolve from his roots. I reponded with awe and excitement.

Well, if you have been playing since the SNES, you MUST know what you're talking about. I'm sorry I ever doubted you!
I guess those of us who started on the Atari 2600 and continued onto every other significant console and played over 1,000 different games wouldn't know anything about what makes a fun game. And somehow during those years I must have personally forgotten to see Sonic "evolve from his roots".
I truly apologize...

And yes... you ARE a graphics "tart" (your choice of weird wording, not mine)

I loved Sonic Adventure a lot. Sure, in retrospect it's not that good. But Sonic Adventure 2 nailed it by making longer and more complete and consistent stages. With SA2, 3D Sonic was truly competing with the classics. But the sensation of Sonic in 3D is irreplaceable. SA2 was simply smooth. Then, Sonic Heroes doubled the length of the stages. I was almost certain that Sonic had a bright future.

I liked Sonic Adventure to a certain extent. I don't hate it. Its just not what I would expect.
SA2 did NOT have consistent stages, hence the problem. Yes, it ditched the exploration, but that alone would not make it consistent.

I say this because I think the perspective is lost. Sonic is criticized on misconceived principles. This article is the biggest proof I have ever seen.

Wow -- that didn't make sense AT ALL.

Let me recap. The article doesn't say "get better voice actors" or "write better dialogue". It says "kill Sonic's voice". It's completely outrageous. And rather than putting forward any ideas on making a better 3D Sonic, by making more expansive levels or bring the sense of momentum to the controls... no let's make it side-scrolling.

Voice issue: see above. The whole article applied to making a better 3D game. The side-scrolling part was just one of the suggestions.

Sonic critics can pump out articles and blogs like this like an assembly line. I'm sure then even haven't played the new game yet but rather waited on the "inevitable" bad reviews as an excuse to push Sonic back to the stone age, efforts that are probably doing more good than harm.

I can guarantee you I didn't pump out this article on an "assembly line". (Not sure where you got that load of crap).
In case you have forgotten, we are each entitled to our own opinion. If you want to state yours, that's fine, but don't go tearing down other people's with your troll-fest.

[racketboy]

Eh, he did say a couple of things that are true. I'm not saying he wasn't being arguementative for the sake of being arguementative, but still they seem to check out with me. I may not be a mod, but i've experianced plenty of trolls over the past few years i've been using the internet (It feels much longer, but in actuality, it's only been like 4 or so) and this one doesn't seem to bad. I skimmed over his arguements and unless there were some blarant bashing, they just seem to be his opinions.

Well, you probably skimmed a bit too much, he expressed more than his opinions.
If it was just expressing opinions, I wouldn't have an issue with it.

There were a number of comments left with opposing views that I was happy to leave on there.
I love to see other people's views -- but when they are downright obnoxious about them, I have an issue.

I thought he was acting relatively condescending.
He says he grew up with the SNES, so he's gotta be like 10 years younger than me.
While I know I'm not the ultimate authority on classic gaming (I do have a lot to learn still), he acts like I'm some punk making stuff up.
I'm not even the old-school-only type he pegs me as. I like new games a bunch. In fact I spend more time playing modern games than classic the majority of the time.

My policy is, if you wouldn't say it to me like you were looking me in the face, then tone it down.
And if talks like that to people in "real life", I'm sure he gets some beat-downs on a regular basis.

[arion]

sure some wont agree with sonic in 3d being worse than the 2d genesis ones..but this guy is just nuts.

on another note am i the only one that thinks its weird that sonic had to take trains in sonic adventure..since he poblaby runs faster

[Indy_aka_Rex]

I haven't cared for a Sonic game since Sonic Adventure, and before that, Sonic CD.

Sonic Team has completely and utterly ruined their star mascot with games like Sonic for the 360/PS3. They're unplayable messes that I find devoid of fun. Then there's also the mere fact that in the last 5 years, Sonic Team has pretty much proven they haven't a fucking clue how to write a decent storyline.

It's not just the voice acting that ruins the experience... Sonic Team just doesn't know how to make good games any more.

[Zork]

It's like this, you can say what you want about how something sucks...but if the general concensus is that it sucks and you're trying to show that it doesn't you've already lost. Look, everyone loves Sonic, Sonic is more beloved than Mario imo, and people who love you are usually brutally honest with you. The community is being BRUTALLY honest with Sonic. Something has to change and if this guy loves buying turds let him be, he's the one who's clueless...

[Mozgus]

I won't read all that, but I'll just state the obvious: If you express a negative opinion on a product, there's bound to be someone who wants to lob your balls off for it. Don't worry about the guy.