Could the SS RAM cart have made the system more powerful 3D?

[Cronozilla]

I think maybe you're confused on what the purpose of RAM is.

RAM doesn't operate on data, it just stores it. These systems didn't actually launch with enough RAM, it would have made them even more expensive. That means that the system operational speed and graphical capabilities can be restricted by the amount of RAM that is there by default. As a result, if you want games to look better, and there's still operational headroom on the existing graphics pipeline, then more RAM will help.

However, if the pipeline isn't memory bound, more RAM isn't going to do shit.

Thinking that the Saturn RAM cart somehow enabled crazy 3D that wasn't possible before is a complete misunderstanding of what that cart was doing.

Not that the Saturn couldn't have had add on helper hardware using the cartridge slot. It just wouldn't have been a "RAM Cart" that did it. It would have been some extra 3D processor (like a Super Nintendo game with an FX chip in the cartridge)

With all that being said, stuff like the Saturn Shenmue footage shows that no one whom released games for it fully understood the best way to take advantage of the architecture. That's fairly common for video game systems. If they're not ultra mature systems by the time games stop being made for them, they're not going to be fully utilized.

Market demands that games look better each time you release one, how is that possible on the same system? It's just iterating over time and refining the software for the hardware. There's plenty of games that would have done that, but they usually got moved to the successor hardware. And that list is just stupid long.

[Vant3c]

I'm not confused with the purpose of what RAM is and what it is designed for. I'm asking if the RAM expansion per say would have not made a noticeable difference in terms of 3d performance. Would that not also apply for the 64 RAM pak as well? I guess answer it in this way. Why did the 64 RAM pak make a difference for N64 system and why would that reasoning not apply to the SS.

I'm looking for more of this is why versus why not; pertaining to the 3D aspect of the two individual systems.

From a system stand point I understand over the time of a system u get a better hold of the system architecture and depending on the developer get better performance and graphics. That's a given over time of the system life.

[Flake]

I'm not confused with the purpose of what RAM is and what it is designed for. I'm asking if the RAM expansion per say would have not made a noticeable difference in terms of 3d performance.

No. The Saturn's 3D performance would not improve with the only thing changing being the RAM. Without a change in system architecture and a better 3d processor, nothing would change.

The N64 was designed with two primary differences: cartridges that could house game specific chip sets that could pick up where the system itself left off and most importantly, a system architecture designed for polygonal graphics with an expansion slot meant for improving them built in.

It cannot be overstated how incredibly different the Saturn was to the PSX and N64.

[CD AGES]

I have been playing marvel super heroes on the SS ( awesome game by the way) and was using the RAM cart and it made such a big difference in game and made it look and feel super close to the arcade version more so than the PS1. I guess I figure this feature was under utilized in the american market for 2D but also not made use for 3D.

RAM expansion was quite frankly non-existent for the SS here in America. I reckon Capcom simply didn't bother trying to remove 3MB mode from the US release MSH. That port in general wasn't handled very well by Capcom.

.If you didn't load all the sprites in then mid match when you bust out a special move the system would grind to a halt while it loads the appropriate animation frames from the CD.

This is exactly what happens in the Saturn port of MK2. It's quite frustrating -_-
MSH on Saturn is prone to this problem also, its just no where near as bad as MK2.

[Cronozilla]

3D performance would be entirely unaffected, because it is giving no extra 3D hardware. The 3D chip can only do what the 3D chip can do.

The only thing more RAM allows for is more textures and 2D assets. On the N64 this means higher resolution textures, pre-rendered backgrounds, and FMV. Everything else is up to the existing system and whatever is in the cartridge.

Could there be more 2D textures and objects on screen on the Saturn if it utilized the RAM cart will a polygonal game? Yeah. Is that better 3D performance? No.

And the reason why RAM carts could make games run faster is they would no longer need to try to unpack or stream content while playing the game (which takes away cycles from actually executing the game itself, and is usually handled with pausing the game and loading, or exhibiting slowdown)

[CD AGES]

I think the thing that would have helped the Saturn the most would have been continued cycle life in North America.

I agree with this statement whole hardheartedly. This seems to be a running theme with both the SS and the Dreamcast as well. Not getting a chance to realize the full system potential. I think the Saturn had a lot more umph in the chamber per say...

I recently added a game to my Saturn library. An import 3D fighting game which I had never heard of, from a developer I knew nothing about. The game's called Savaki. It seemed to be a release late in the Saturn's life in Japan.
The game is an impressive feat. Looks about as good or perhaps better than any 3D fighter I've played on Playstation platform. Fairly detailed character models, decent textures for the time, smooth animation, and something which I've not seen from any Sega In-House port of their 3D fighters, and unshakable framerate. The game runs at 60 FPS.

[Vant3c]

" Vant3c wrote:
I think the thing that would have helped the Saturn the most would have been continued cycle life in North America.


I agree with this statement whole hardheartedly. This seems to be a running theme with both the SS and the Dreamcast as well. Not getting a chance to realize the full system potential. I think the Saturn had a lot more umph in the chamber per say...


I recently added a game to my Saturn library. An import 3D fighting game which I had never heard of, from a developer I knew nothing about. The game's called Savaki. It seemed to be a release late in the Saturn's life in Japan.
The game is an impressive feat. Looks about as good or perhaps better than any 3D fighter I've played on Playstation platform. Fairly detailed character models, decent textures for the time, smooth animation, and something which I've not seen from any Sega In-House port of their 3D fighters, and unshakable framerate. The game runs at 60 FPS. "

I have seen the game and it looks good and the frame rate is top notch. I like how it went for a very realistic type fighting system. I think that Last Bronx is still the best looking fighter on the system from a 3D perspective. I would say going toe to toe with the likes of Tekken 3 and Soul edge.

So it seems that we have to a point establish that the RAM would not help the 3D performance of the system. Would it then help toake the textures and resolution high for the system let's say for a game like Last Bronx on the system. Or how about this thought instead. Resident evil 2 on the N64 allowed the RAM expansion to improve a lot of areas of the game graphical. Let's say that Resident evil 2 made its way to the SS ( which we all know it didn't). Could the SS receive those same benefits that the N64 had with its own RAM expansion. This is all hypothetical but interesting none the less.

[CD AGES]

RE2 simply a few 3D polygon models over pre rendered backgrounds. The Saturn would be able to handle that no problem.

In fact, a SS port for the game was supposedly in the works and would've utilize the Ram cart. It eventually got cancelled.

[Vant3c]

"RE2 simply a few 3D polygon models over pre rendered backgrounds. The Saturn would be able to handle that no problem.

In fact, a SS port for the game was supposedly in the works and would've utilize the Ram cart. It eventually got cancelled."

That's something that I did not know but it would have been really cool to see if the game did come out. That would have been the best of both worlds. All the benefits of the 64 RAM expansion but with the CD technology benefits or better FMVs, backgrounds and audio. In a way u could have had a version that would have been close to the DC version in some respects.

[d123456]

Sega had it all.
Loads of Sega Arcade and console games and franchises.
Loads of Sega Arcade and console hardware.
Years of experience.

Sony waited for Sega to walk by, said 'Boo'.
And Sega shit itself over nothing. It's astonishing.
Sony must've been like: 'What, huh, we did it?'
If Sega wouldn't have given up. I wonder if M$, Sony and Nintendo would be there anymore.

It's like someone that could potentially make millions playing basketball and he says: "I'm not good enough". Weird example, but it infuriates me that Sega stepped out of the hardware game. How could they really have been doing that bad? So many chances and opportunities. I hate them for their vision, fear, book keeping, marketing, etc. But I love their software and hardware. I still think they should now start again. I'll fund them for 1000euros, perhaps more.

The Saturn is a great system. Why didn't those assholes release the system in Champagne? What an idiots. It's like if BMW were to start selling their cars with ugly random pieces of rubber onto their cars. (not a stab at the Cactus, the car has grown on me a bit).

It's like if Obama, would've withdrawn at the last moment.
Highly annoying.
Sorry, I think that they could've used the cartridge slot or even that slot used for the FMV module. To expand the 3D ability. Maybe lend a hand to third party developers, give them tips.
They were busy with the next project. The Dreamcast. "we'll get them next time!" They never should've abbandoned the saturn.
And I should've bought a Saturn instead of a ps. At the time I would've killed for Ridge Racer at home and Tekken, so I got just that. I would've been much happier with Sega Rally and a Capcom 4MB fighting game and a good pad.

Sorry for this uncohesive rant. I want to choke and kiss Sega at the same time. I want new Sega hardware dammit!