PC Emulation on SD CRT?

[chuckster]

I have a late-model Sanyo Flatscreen CRT, and I love playing the real Genesis and SNES on it. I was a long-time emulation advocate before really giving original hardware another chance. Now it's going to be hard to go back. I even got a CRT monitor and it's just not the same (mostly because of size). My problem is that it is very hard to collect and afford all the titles I want. Demon's Crest alone is out of my price range.

So, I figure my two options are:

1) Flash carts for the SNES and Genesis (I want an NES ASAP too, so add that in). That would still put the price pretty high for both + SD cards.

2) Emulate and somehow push it through the CRT.

The second options leaves me with many questions, however.

1) What do I need to do in order to push a Win7 PC to the CRT? I think it's probably 480i, but I don't know for sure. It has component though, so probably 480p. If it takes a $400 scaler and special transcoders/interlacers, I won't bother.

2) For those of you who have done this, how does the lag compare? I'm no pro, but I do like to feel a snappy response. I didn't think anything of lag until I played on real hardware with a CRT. Now, it's hard to get used to the slightly sluggish feel of the LED.

3) Is the image treated right? What I mean is, can you tell a big difference in emulation and real hardware through S-Vid or RGB--> Component on a proper SD CRT?

[darsparx]

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a pc video card for outputting on a crt(and even more shocked if there's not one compatible with 7 in some way). If you're comfortable with adding a new card/driver to the pc that might be your best route unless you can somehow find a cord to go from vga or what have you to rgb/composite/s-video(though the card idea sounds a lot better but depends on skill level). I actually wouldn't be surprised if someone here hasn't attempted that

[dogman91]

What you want is being able to output any low-res mode (320x240, 256x224, etc.) from your graphics card, to a transcoder, and to finally your CRT.

What you DON'T want, is something that takes ANY resolution and scales it to 480i no matter what the original res is.

Step 1: get the proper graphics card and hacked drivers (I use GroovyMAME's, as it supports outputting MAME ROMs in particular in it's original timing preventing screen-tearing): http://geedorah.com/eiusdemmodi/forum/v ... .php?id=65

Step 2: get a VGA to Component transcoder (or VGA to S-video or composite, if your TV doesn't support it). Make sure with whatever you get that the transcoder keeps the original input signal unscaled/unprocessed! I use this in particular, but it looks like it's discontinued: http://www.curtpalme.com/TC1500.shtm

Then just hook up the VGA cable from the graphics card to the transcoder box, and then the component cables to your CRT.

You need to run VM-Maker when you first install the hacked drivers, restart, then set the default desktop resolution in 480i in ArcadeOSD.
All this takes some figuring out, but its the best way to do what you're asking.

With all that you should be able to fullscreen emulators (on 1x) in it's original low res on your CRT. You can also get USB adapters for controllers like your SNES controller.

I'd still recommend getting the flashcarts and using original consoles when possible, as other emulators that isn't GroovyMAME will screen tear without Vsync enabled.

[Exhuminator]

1) What do I need to do in order to push a Win7 PC to the CRT?

To get the video out of the computer to the TV, you'll need something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Converter-Box-com ... to+s-video

PROTIP: When running a PC on an old CRT, make your Windows resolution as low as you can stand. That's the only way you'll be able to read the system fonts and have icons not be an indistinguishable blur. Emulated games should be fine because the emulator should resize the game to the resolution at scale.

The audio you can listen to out of the computer speakers, or patch into your living room sound system. Or you can patch the audio out from the computer into the TV using a variety of methods. It all depends on what kind of audio inputs your TV accepts. It's not rocket science by any means.

For those of you who have done this, how does the lag compare?

I've emulated games from PC to CRT many times, never had a problem with lag.

Is the image treated right? What I mean is, can you tell a big difference in emulation and real hardware through S-Vid or RGB--> Component on a proper SD CRT?

As long as in the emulator you are doing zero processing to the picture (no special filters), and you have your Windows resolution at a 4:3 scale the aspect ratio will be fine. Here's a list of aspect ratio resolutions: hhttp://www.ngohq.com/peripheral-equipm ... -list.html

I recommend 640x480 for a CRT if your computer can hack it. You might have to run at 800x600 though to work with some of the emulator's menu systems that won't scale right.

Get yourself a nice wireless controller for the PC and you're all set.

[CRTGAMER]

Reducing a PC output to composite is silly, even if the purpose is to attempt duplication of a console on a regular TV. The PC will become too blurry going thru a Composite or Svideo output. I sometimes hook up my older Laptop which has direct SVideo output and it does work, but the quality of video compared to a VGA monitor is definitely worse.

640x480 VGA resolution is similar to 480p
This is the lower end of the normal Windows resolution. To maintain the best image quality, just get a matched VGA input. If you really want the emulation gaming on a Tube TV just get a HD CRT and utilize the DVI/HDMI/Component Input with the appropriate PC out adapter.

I like playing Mame and PC games on the big screen every once in a while. I use the SVideo jack for quick convenience plugin of the older laptop for party games such as my software modded You Don't Know Jack with Buzz Controllers. A party game is best played on the big screen instead of huddled around a computer monitor.

[Exhuminator]

the quality of video compared to a VGA monitor is definitely worse

That's the point. Tons of the older games' graphics are designed to utilize the faux antialiasing that lower end CRTs impose upon their incoming video. Anyone hooking up a PC to a CRT is likely seeking this phenomena out of nostalgia or aesthetic authenticity. I don't think too many kids had their Nintendos running through VGA monitors back in the 80s.

[dogman91]

The thing is though, SNES/other old consoles didn't run it's games in (stretched) 480i, which is what the converter you linked to does. So it's not really 'nostalgic' in that sense at all.

At least CRTGAMER's has the converter he linked to at 480p (which won't work with an SD CRT), but still not the same as the original low-res output of the consoles with scanlines. The minimum resolution you can have on your desktop is 640x480 with those converters you linked to as well, and nothing lower.

PLUS, a lot of the cheaper crappier converters introduce noise in the video and are very unreliable.

[chuckster]

Thanks for all the replies guys, the main reason I would ever want to emulate is save-state capability. I see now that some flash carts have that ability, and hopefully they make it more of a hassle so I'm not tempted so badly! I think I will focus my questions on flash carts in another thread, since PC emulation of SD (for lightguns!) doesn't seem worth it. I already have a CRT monitor anyway, it just didn't seem the same.

[Exhuminator]

PLUS, a lot of the cheaper crappier converters introduce noise in the video and are very unreliable.

What you're saying assumes OP was looking for the utmost quality. But that was not the case. Remember that OP said, "If it takes a $400 scaler and special transcoders/interlacers, I won't bother." What I linked to was a cheap and dirty solution because that seemed to be what OP was searching for. A quick and easy way to get his PC emulated classic consoles to a CRT TV. What I offered was the cheapest and simplest way to pull that off.

The nostalgic faux antialiasing I was talking about would still be present regardless if the aspect ratio was correct or not. You put sharp edges from a PC into a CRT TV over a low grade video input and you will get blurred pixels. Games that utilized clever dithering to create fake transparencies resulting from blurred neighboring pixels would look effective because of this.

[samsonlonghair]

I remember not that long ago (2006ish) some radeon video cards output composite video and s-video.

This is a Radeon 9250.