RTS Games That Make You Think

[ded srs]

Haven't posted in a while. Ran a search for similar topics, found a couple, but made this thread anyway because I think this idea is good enough for it's own topic.

I have issues with RTS games. Mainly that they rarely feel strategic. I never have to pause and consider my next move. I've played a lot of RTS's. And played the demo's of more obscure ones too. Even games like Supreme Commander don't make me feel like i have to think. Most just feel like a race to send the biggest blob of dudes to the enemy base, which you will not capture or have the option to hold onto, but will smash into pieces so thoroughly that it'll be like it never existed in the first place. Granted the Rise of games are an exception to the blowing everything up rule, but still. Even those games, as much fun as it is to build my civilization, the combat is the same. Send a blob of dudes at the enemy, watch for planes and pray the computers don't abuse their nukes (which they always do).

Things like where you put your units, deciding when to retreat, capturing enemy bases, etc. don't seem to matter in most strategy games. I never have to think, just move move move. It just feels mindless. You might be thinking that I'd be more interested in Tactic games like Total War. Total War does interest me, but I kind of prefer the ability to make my own bases and armies. Maybe all I'm looking for is an RTS game with combat like an RTT game.

What do YOU think? Agree? Disagree? Suggestions (that don't include Starcraft or Warcraft)?

[MrPopo]

The closest you might come to what you want is Achron, which uses time travel as a game mechanic (for multiplayer, at that). For most RTS's you want to break the enemy base as soon and decisively as possible, as once you've done so you have a commanding lead and the rest of the game is a formality. Maybe he has an expansion somewhere, but you're so far ahead now that you're going to win anyway. So the deathball is the tactic of choice for winning. Some games might allow for more micro potential, but at the end of the day it'll be "get all your forces to kill".

[cha cha]

Herzog Zwei had a fair bit of actual strategy built into it and is considered to be the predecessor for modern RTS games.

Also what you describe above, I have never felt from most of the Command & Conquer games. Some later entries really dumb it all down, but the first 3 were really solid strategically imo.

[Pulsar_t]

Have you given Sins of a Solar Empire and its expansions and mods a shot? There's also WWII strategy games from http://www.graviteam.com/ but they don't have base-building. The depth in them however dwarfs most other war strategy games (except those which are purely turn-based). The Men of War series also allows you to micro-manage but lacks base-building. For modern combat, there's the Wargame series that apes World in Conflict, but is a lot harder and unforgiving.

I really don't mind the lack of base/unit building in new RTS games, since it's been replaced by a reinforcement system and limited resources.

[prfsnl_gmr]

You might also want to consider R.U.S.E. I have not spent much (i.e., "any") time with it, but its focus on information warfare appears to set it apart from most RTS games.

[RyaNtheSlayA]

Most strategy in RTS games is found in multiplayer.

It's pretty easy to blob the AI in most games. A bit harder against regular people.

It's a turn based tactical RTS, but, I'd check out Frozen Synapse if you have time.

[Erik_Twice]

I agree with Ryan. If you want strategy beyond "swarm the opponent with lots of units", you need to play against humans because the AI is always very dumb.

[ded srs]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! I guess i have some stuff to try out. Herzog Zwei in particular catches my attention (well what wikipedia says about it anyway). An RTS on Genesis. Gotta try it.

[fastbilly1]

Look up Real War. It is a PC game from 2000 that is a commercially released training simulator used by the USA Military.

[Gamejammers1992]

Try Europa universalis