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[3703]

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[Stark]

If you're playing from a password that you legitimately got (meaning you got to this point in the game from the beginning to get this password) and then beat it from using that password onward, I would consider that beating the game. Otherwise, what you're looking at one sitting playthrough or can only use a password once? Seems like a silly distinction to me.

[ZeoDefender]

Which brings me to passworded games. I'm playing Road Rash on the Mega Drive at the moment and it has the standard drill, you can return to whatever point in the game by entering the unique 20 character password. These systems have always bothered me, because depending on how a game is structured they can function more like savestates than saves.

No, that's functioning exactly like a save.

[3703]

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[MrPopo]

Which brings me to passworded games. I'm playing Road Rash on the Mega Drive at the moment and it has the standard drill, you can return to whatever point in the game by entering the unique 20 character password. These systems have always bothered me, because depending on how a game is structured they can function more like savestates than saves.

No, that's functioning exactly like a save.

Don't agree. If a game has a high score mechanic (in this case total money won), and the password system allows you to repeatedly go back to before you got game over, it makes the high score mechanic a redundant piece of shit, and in turn on some level the challenge of the game. Makes me think they only want you to use a password once. Agree that would be a stupid distinction for a lot of people, but it matters to the ocd person in me.

I'm not aware of any games that has a persistant high score that doesn't reset when you input a password. Usually games do the opposite; if you load a password your score is lower than if you had gotten to that point normally.

[Hobie-wan]

I'm not aware of any games that has a persistant high score that doesn't reset when you input a password. Usually games do the opposite; if you load a password your score is lower than if you had gotten to that point normally.

Indeed. Either it is usually a puzzle type game and you start with a score of zero if you start a later level with a password, or is is some adventure/RPG title that there's no score at all. Similarly most games with saves don't have scores either unless it is a portable game with a single 'hold' type save that is removed with you load it to continue your game later.

What game keeps the score and your place in a password?

[Ivo]

What game keeps the score and your place in a password?

A specific example for passwords keeping score is Devil Crash (although this particular one doesn't preserve other important information, like the position and velocity of the ball - you keep the score and re-start from the launcher).
It isn't that hard in theory (it can make it cumbersome in practice). With a long enough password you can include all important details and it becomes just like a save game.

I really think the best is to consider games with passwords the same way as games with saves: if it is your password / save, then you did it within the game. There is no harm in trying for a higher challenge by completing the game without using either (or using them in a limited fashion), but often games having passwords / saves are designed with those systems in mind and may be too long to reasonably complete without using them (I would say this applies with Devil Crash, if you want to "finish it").

As for scores and passwords / saves, I don't see why that is a problem. In many or most of games that have both scores and some way of saving, you are not able to save in the middle of a stage / mission / level. You can still re-do each "level" (or whatever). You can still compete for a higher score / lower time in each segment non-withstanding. That seems like it applies to Road Rash - you may be able to erase your mistakes, but you still need to get 1st place (or whatever) in each race to reach the end with a competitive "score" of cash earned. In racing games track times are usually considered as well, so there is enough room to distinguish similar performances. Passwords / saves don't invalidate this.

You are used to having "infinite" tries to improve your score if you go right from the start. Instead, the save system is just letting you have "infinite" tries at the start of each stage with the best score you had acquired up to there. It isn't qualitatively that different really, but of course it makes a quantitative difference. Instead of competing for Best score in a single run through X levels, you are competing for what would tend to be the sum of the individual best score in level 1 + ... + best score in level X. They are still the scores each player can get, it just removes a bunch of the focus on being consistently able to get a great score in each and every stage, which is an important difference for better or for worse depending on the game.

Another interesting example are games with "save rooms" if you are going for e.g. a speedrun each time you go save typically eats up valuable seconds so it is a trade-off.

In the specific example of Devil Crash, I would say there is no point in competing for score unless you don't use the password system at all though - the way it works in that game can clearly be used to max the score counter.

[SpaceBooger]

The classic games we all know and love didn't have endings and you played the same levels over and over again to get the best score. Save states and passwords allow that same ideal. Like Ivo said, if you want a higher score before moving on to the next level redoing that particular level over and over again seems natural not cheating.

[dunpeal2064]

I look at passwords the same as saves. In an rpg, if you run out of health, the game is over, but loading from a save takes you back to the last point you were able to save, where you still have health.

It seems the same in Road Rash. If you run out of money you lose, but a password lets you return to the last checkpoint and attempt from there again without running out of money.

This is very different from a high score, as I can't think of ANY game that kills you based on score. Score is only to show your progress on one credit.

[dsheinem]

This is very different from a high score, as I can't think of ANY game that kills you based on score. Score is only to show your progress on one credit.

That would be awesome, though. A game where hitting certain scores (e.g. any score that ends in a certain number, any score that fails to meet some minimum level passage requirement, any score that ties an existing high score, etc.) would kill you or make you lose the game would be a pretty interesting (and potentially frustrating, obviously) mechanic. You'd have to concern yourself constantly with what your score was, in addition to navigating the gameworld itself...