Now I love Treasure like the next guy, but this has been bothering me lately. They were always at the forefront of tight, fun gameplay and brilliant 2D visuals. But what the hell is with their games' music across all platforms? It's like they never tried very hard.
Now hear me out. I'm not bashing the composition. There are a reasonable amount of catchy tunes in most of their games. Nothing of Uematsu quality or anything, but still above average. My problem is with their audio quality. Dynamite Heady and Gunstar Heroes sound so high pitched and sharp and tinny, that my ears fucking hurt if I try to play the music at a normal level. Imagine if Treasure used whatever music engine Jesper Kyd made and used for Genesis? Even the music in the original Sonic the Hedgehog sounds better than this. There's virtually no bass at all in Treasure's 16bit games.
And then I try their GBA entries like Astroboy and Super Gunstar Heroes, and these soundtracks are extremely muffled, even more muffled than most GBA music. There are quite a few GBA games that have great quality music like Advance Wars, Aria of Sorrow, and a title Rattboi just got me into, Rhythm Tengoku. It can be done.
Then I go back to Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga, and guess what? More muffled music. I can maybe understand Silvergun, as it had a lot of CDDA speech tracks and some FMVs, but Ikaruga has no god damn excuse for not going with good quality streamed ADX music. The game compresses to 18MB for christ's sake. That's not using the GD-ROM storage worth a damn. From what I've heard from other games for Saturn and Dreamcast which used sequenced music, (like Panzer Dragoon Saga and Skies of Arcadia), these Sega platforms couldn't quite offer the quality that, say, Playstation 1's sound chip pulled off, but Treasure still didn't come close to maxing out their capabilities.
Anyways, like I said, they make good games, but I just have to disagree when people consider them perfect.
Treasure rocks, but they seriously failed at music.
i think radiant silvergun sounds fine.
second of all, the Saturn sound processors blows the playsation 1's away by a mile.
mabye your sounds system sucks. then again, your comparing this to stuff you think is better so maybe you do.
they dont make perfect games, but they make great games usually better than most other companies in the genre they work in.
second of all, the Saturn sound processors blows the playsation 1's away by a mile.
mabye your sounds system sucks. then again, your comparing this to stuff you think is better so maybe you do.
they dont make perfect games, but they make great games usually better than most other companies in the genre they work in.
I would guess Mozgus's sound system is ok, considering it's one of his passions....claudio wrote:i think radiant silvergun sounds fine.
second of all, the Saturn sound processors blows the playsation 1's away by a mile.
mabye your sounds system sucks. then again, your comparing this to stuff you think is better so maybe you do.
they dont make perfect games, but they make great games usually better than most other companies in the genre they work in.
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I agree their Genesis games lack bass... Their GBA games don't sound spectacular either - but really very few GBA games don't sound muffled.
I strongly disagree with Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga though. Two beautiful soundtracks with great sound quality.
And yes, its generally accepted the Saturn had a much more powerful soundchip than PS1. Dreamcast even moreso (though I don't believe many games used sequenced DC music)
RS and Ikaruga originally used sequenced music because they were arcade games. I suppose Treasure could have included remixed CDDA/Streaming tunes in the console releases but chose not to. I'm fine with that because the originals are so good...
I strongly disagree with Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga though. Two beautiful soundtracks with great sound quality.
And yes, its generally accepted the Saturn had a much more powerful soundchip than PS1. Dreamcast even moreso (though I don't believe many games used sequenced DC music)
RS and Ikaruga originally used sequenced music because they were arcade games. I suppose Treasure could have included remixed CDDA/Streaming tunes in the console releases but chose not to. I'm fine with that because the originals are so good...
Ok anyone who says Saturn's music capabilities outweigh the PS1's is totally batshit crazy. If they technically are better, why the hell were they never utilized? In fact, I'll make this interesting. Name one game from Saturn, N64, or Dreamcast which uses sequenced music that sounds better than what is found in Chrono Cross or Final Fantasy 8/9. All Squaresoft, but I don't care. The music was stunning in quality. Especially the string instruments.
One of the thing about Treasure music, is that it doesn't seem to be designed for listening. If I were to guess, this is part of their design process. For all that I love the compositions of Ikaruga and Radiant Silvergun, I can't actually stand listening to them. Kinda puzzling at first -- having been quite excited to obtain the soundtracks to both, and then finding them utterly terrible as stand-alone music. And yet, I love them during the game. Maybe I'm putting too much credit on Treasure, but I suspect that the music is designed to work only within a playing game. I suspect the strange muffling which Mozgus alludes, is to ensure that other sounds are vibrant against the soundtrack. Thus, the soundtrack drives you on in conjunction with the gameplay.
Thats my only guess. I frankly think the compositions are too skillful, and the blend between music and gameplay too superb, for it to suck as a matter of sloppiness. As I said, I love the music when playing games (GBA games, of which I have no real experience, not included), but can't stand it if I'm simply listening to the music.
For the Genesis games -- they all sound tinny to me (Treasure or not). When bass is used in a soundtrack, it seems to lessen the value of sound effects -- especially that of explosions.
Thats my only guess. I frankly think the compositions are too skillful, and the blend between music and gameplay too superb, for it to suck as a matter of sloppiness. As I said, I love the music when playing games (GBA games, of which I have no real experience, not included), but can't stand it if I'm simply listening to the music.
For the Genesis games -- they all sound tinny to me (Treasure or not). When bass is used in a soundtrack, it seems to lessen the value of sound effects -- especially that of explosions.
Well, I'm not certain how fair it is for the Dreamcast, since most games did not use sequenced music. In fact, I can only think of one game on DC which does, but it does trounce the titles you mention: Rez.Mozgus wrote:Ok anyone who says Saturn's music capabilities outweigh the PS1's is totally batshit crazy. If they technically are better, why the hell were they never utilized? In fact, I'll make this interesting. Name one game from Saturn, N64, or Dreamcast which uses sequenced music that sounds better than what is found in Chrono Cross or Final Fantasy 8/9. All Squaresoft, but I don't care. The music was stunning in quality. Especially the string instruments.
Um...shit. Defeated. Name another! That's uh....uh special case. Actually I think it is. Didn't it just use a series of streamed segments and not the actual synthesizer? Someone on this forum or another made a thread about the music files in Rez detailing that much, I believe.durkada wrote:Well, I'm not certain how fair it is for the Dreamcast, since most games did not use sequenced music. In fact, I can only think of one game on DC which does, but it does trounce the titles you mention: Rez.
But about that common philosophy of how some game music just wasn't made for listening on it's own; I always find that to be false. I listen and enjoy a ton of game music that people tell me I shouldn't be. Also, this thread was made on the fact that most of these soundtracks are actually not downloaded to my machine. I seriously was just listening to them from in-game.