Good hard games

[Ivo]

I think it will be interesting to know some good hard games - I'm not so interested in games that are hard because the controls suck, for example (and some games are just hard because they're somehow "unfair" with cheap tricks). Perhaps "challenging" is a better description of what I'm suggesting.

I just thought of this because I've been "working" on finishing Megaman Zero 2 keeping an S level throughout, and that's on the default "normal" difficulty (there's hard difficulty available after you finish the game). Some levels are definitively challenging.

Obvious games of this sort are most shooters, and a well known example is surely Ikaruga.

Most older arcade games tended to be like this to encourage people putting more credits in - I reckon Ghouls n' Goblins and Ghouls n' Ghosts are typical of this syndrome; likewise older games for the home consoles followed the trend of the arcade games (despite not getting more "credits" from the player!) and were typically harder than modern games (also due to the lack of progress saving etc.)

Anyway, enough description from me; why not post about hard games you played and may or may not have beaten?

[Abras]

I generally stay away from hard games, but I did beat the original meg man. No saving feature... My firend and I spent all day, but it's certainly a memorable time.

And let's not forget about Contra. I never made it much farther than the first level. I've also heard that Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden are very difficult, though I have no experience.

[neohx_7]

Hard arcade type games can be really fun when they aren't super cheap. The high difficulty levels on Viewtiful Joe provide some hard but not cheap gameplay. It's easy to get into and play for a short period of time.

[racketboy]

You may have already read my write-up, but Super Mario Bros. Lost Levels is hard.
http://www.racketboy.com/retro/2007/04/ ... eview.html

So is MDK2 for PC/Dreamcast/PS2

[fastbilly1]

umm, Ikaruga is on the easier end of vertical shumps. I mean you get an award if you beat the game without shooting, bulleteater. For a difficult shooter try:
Touhou/Shanghai Alice - http://shootthecore.moonpod.com/databas ... ghai+Alice
Salamander 1&2 -
DoDonpachi - ok its a lesser one but the guy yells at you -
Progear -
And there is always Mushihimesama Futari -

But for none shumps:
Cubivore - Gamecube
JJ and Jeff/Kato and Ken - TG16
Are the only two I can think of off the top of my head.

[marurun]

Well, Mega Man 1 is hard, but I can do you one better. The original NES Battletoads (and its Genesis port, if you want something slightly prettier) is one of the most challenging games ever.

[fastbilly1]

Actually grab a PC-Engine/TG16 or a PC-FX, or simply download Hugo. And you can pretty much grab a game at random. Either itll be really easy or fairly difficult. Granted there are alot of trash titles, the aformentioned JJ and Jeff (shotty controls and stupid hard to find secrets that are required to complete the stage), but others are either amazingly fun or downright deviously hard. Though there are alot of shumps...

And I promise I was not really a shump fan until this year, aside from Truxton and Dragon Spirit.

[Ivo]

You may have already read my write-up, but Super Mario Bros. Lost Levels is hard.
http://www.racketboy.com/retro/2007/04/ ... eview.html

So is MDK2 for PC/Dreamcast/PS2

I played MDK2 on the PC and it, like MDK were challenging, but I don't remember it being particularly hard (although there were some bouncing shots to targets that were a bit stupid). Although maybe I was just particularly good at it from my MDK training (and to a certain extent, from Earth Worm Jim which I played a LOT - it might seem like it has nothing to do with it, but the spirit of the game is strangely reminiscent in MDK).


As for Fastbilly's comment on shooters: this genre is renowed for being "hardcore"... I've seen a "superplay" video of Imperishable Night (Nights?), which I think is one of the Touhou series game, and either I was missing something, or that is simply on the stupid side of hard (I wouldn't exactly call that "fair", but feel free to think I'm a wimp). Ikaruga IS hard; shooters much harder than Ikaruga are IMO flawed as games; I'd even count them flawed as "hard games" (although I know some niche people will enjoy it).
With all that said, I haven't played those Touhou games myself, so I reserve final judgment until I do. Are they freeware PC shooters?

Ivo.

[fastbilly1]

True, sorry if I came off as brash or cocky. To be honest, I found all shoters far to tough at the end of last year, including Ikaruga. But I sat down one day and played a donmaku/bullet hell shooter or lunatic for a couple hours, just to see why everyone was complaining. A couple days later I realized that I could play both planes in Aerofighters fairly easily, first stage without dying for either plane. But your right, donmaku are not for everyone. Some of them, ie Musihime Futari, are just stupid hard. However even those games have easier difficulties. Then again I cant play horizontal shumps to save my life, so all of them are supremely difficult.

The Touhou games are doujin/fanmade, games so technically they are freeware. There are shareware demos, previously linked to on shootthecore, but the real games are about $15 each.

[Ivo]

The Touhou games are doujin/fanmade, games so technically they are freeware. There are shareware demos, previously linked to on shootthecore, but the real games are about $15 each.

I think freeware is always used to mean games that aren't commercial (in any way), so being shareware should exclude them from being freeware. Nitpicks on terminology aside, I'll see if I try a demo of these Touhou "curtain shooters" so I know more about how they play - I doubt I'll shell out for the full version if they're as hard as they appear to be.

Games I played recently that are hard:

Rick Dangerous 2 (1 is harder, but in a cheap sort of way IMO).

Megamans in general seem to be quite tough; I'd say Megaman 1 and 2 are probably the hardest (and shouldn't be topped as that was leaning a bit too much on the frustrating side), but having played Zero and Zero 2 in the GBA they continue to be challenging (and you can make them easier if you're willing to sacrifice on your "level" by using the Cyber-Elves).

Ikaruga.

N, the freeware game (someone has a review in the Reviews section).

I haven't played much of it yet, but the Lost levels as Racket says is a hard game.