What are you playing?

[pierrot]

Looks like you've got the HD version of Wind Waker. You'll probably end up enjoying that one more. it doesn't force you to navigate the seas as much, from what I've heard. I prefer doing things the hard way sometimes, and sailing the high seas in Wind Waker feels really rewarding. The control of the boat can be a bit tricky. I don't know if I would go so far as to say that it's "bad," but it definitely takes some work to get a handle on. The only thing I really hated about Wind Waker was Tetra's treatment at the end of the game (not that surprising considering Nintendo's track record, though). Otherwise, Wind Waker is magnificent, and no other Zelda game has better combat than WW.

[prfsnl_gmr]

Counterpoint: Zelda II has better combat than Wind Waker.

[BoneSnapDeez]

I still say the first Zelda holds up extremely well. At the time of its release it was the best game in existence.

[PretentiousHipster]

Looks like you've got the HD version of Wind Waker. You'll probably end up enjoying that one more. it doesn't force you to navigate the seas as much, from what I've heard. I prefer doing things the hard way sometimes, and sailing the high seas in Wind Waker feels really rewarding. The control of the boat can be a bit tricky. I don't know if I would go so far as to say that it's "bad," but it definitely takes some work to get a handle on. The only thing I really hated about Wind Waker was Tetra's treatment at the end of the game (not that surprising considering Nintendo's track record, though). Otherwise, Wind Waker is magnificent, and no other Zelda game has better combat than WW.

It wasn't the controls of the boat I was frustrated with. It can be summarized perfectly in the beginning. I tried to pick up a pig. You have to be in an EXACT position to pick up. Not too close, not too far. While playing it last time I felt like this was happening with practically everything in the game. But, as I said, this is probably just my fault anyways. The combat and especislly the style are among one of the best of the zelda series to me, at least in retrospect.

That being said I wouldn't be surprised if Minish Cap becomes a top 3 zelda game to me. That one was almost perfect.

[pook99]

Playing through the GBA Castlevania games. Still waiting for Bloodstained to go below $30 CAD. Mmissed it on black Friday

https://www.exophase.com/user/SuperDerpBro/

If you want a cheap way to play bloodstained sign up for game pass, you could usually find a promo to have the first month be a dollar, but worst case its 5 dollars and bloodstained is on it. You wouldn't own the game but it will give you a chance to play it cheap.

I'm actually really glad I played bloodstained on game pass, I was looking forward to it but wound up really disliking it.

[PretentiousHipster]

My oh my is the first Zelda impressive. I already wrote around 500 words of rough notes within 45 minutes of playing. It still creates a world full of immersion and gave me a sense of wonder. It is quite hard, but I find myself improving quite quickly. Basically you figure out the controls and the patterns of the regular enemies within 30 minutes. It is quite obtuse with finding stuff, but let's face it, Ocarina of Time was just as obtuse. Only minor complaints are the hitbox issues with picking up rupees and hearts, and I HATE that you start with 3 hearts when you're respawning, even if you have more than that as your max health.

EDIT: Also the retrotink 2x is just amazing. Link and the numbers and letters are so smooth, and it records stuff at 60 fps.

[SuperDerpBro]

Playing through the GBA Castlevania games. Still waiting for Bloodstained to go below $30 CAD. Mmissed it on black Friday

https://www.exophase.com/user/SuperDerpBro/

If you want a cheap way to play bloodstained sign up for game pass, you could usually find a promo to have the first month be a dollar, but worst case its 5 dollars and bloodstained is on it. You wouldn't own the game but it will give you a chance to play it cheap.

I'm actually really glad I played bloodstained on game pass, I was looking forward to it but wound up really disliking it.

I guess i could do that and then buy the disc later. Hopefully it will be cheaper by the time i finish the GBA and then the DS Castlevania games, heh .

[pierrot]

Counterpoint: Zelda II has better combat than Wind Waker.

It's my opinion, of course, that practically every other Zelda game has better combat than Zelda II. I'm not so sure Zelda II's combat is any better than Wand of Gamelon's, even.

It wasn't the controls of the boat I was frustrated with. It can be summarized perfectly in the beginning. I tried to pick up a pig. You have to be in an EXACT position to pick up. Not too close, not too far. While playing it last time I felt like this was happening with practically everything in the game. But, as I said, this is probably just my fault anyways.

Oh, hmm. That probably is true. I don't personally remember that being the case in WW, but it does kind of remind of trying to pick up cuccos in the N64 games. Sort of reminds me of Yu Suzuki talking about the limitations of talking with NPCs in typical JRPGs, too.

It is quite obtuse with finding stuff, but let's face it, Ocarina of Time was just as obtuse.

It certainly is stupidly designed in that way. I don't feel like OoT was quite as stupid about it, though. I find there to be a lot of false freedom with the original LoZ. Not like Dragon Slayer, where it just gives you all the tools, and says, 'Go get 'em, tiger. Get yourself into dragon slaying form, 'cause in later maps, we're going to start taking tools away to see what you can really do.' Do you want to immediately break the pillars down to go directly to the first dragon? Go for it! Want to build a safe zone around your house, and murder kill monsters until they dare not test you ever again? Also allowed, although some enemies will reset your stats if they get a hand on you. You can power up however you see fit with the resources available on the map, even. LoZ owes almost everything to Dragon Slayer, but it still fucked up the formula. LoZ starts out with this idea that the world is your oyster, but roadblocks you at almost every turn until you find a bunch of dumb items buried away in impossibly abstruse locations. At least in later games you have the freedom to chop down every last blade of grass. LoZ practically forces you to burn every single bush, bomb every tile of mountain/wall, push on every stone/statue/block. I don't outright dislike LoZ, but it probably has one of the worst gameplay loops ever.

[PretentiousHipster]

Yea I did notice after a while of LoZ I just looked at guides to at least see what areas to go to, but my first impressions of it is me loving it.

I didn't know about Dragon Slayer. Apparently Hydlide also set the formula, but was released a few months later. I guess after beating LoZ I'll try those games out before reviewing it. Would you recommend I go through Hydlide as well? I noticed it's cheap on ebay for the NES version so I'll try that one too if you recommend it.

[marurun]

I rather disagree about Dragon Slayer vs Zelda. LoZ owes a lot to games that came before it, but is ultimately a refinement of those forms meant to make that style of play accessible to a much broader audience. It does have a lot of gating, but there are a number of opportunities to go outside the intended order of things and persevere without important upgrades. Basically, a lot of what you like about Dragon Slayer makes it a tough sell for portions of the gaming public, even at the time. LoZ is a main-streaming of some of the core ideas, turning them into a much more broadly palatable end product. It also doesn’t have the benefit of the increased system memory available in most early PCs of the time. As it is, I think it is an elegant distillation of that type of game that holds up fairly well even today.