☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Anything that is gaming related that doesn't fit well anywhere else

Your opinion of the Souls series?

I don't like these games because they are too hard.
0
No votes
I don't like these games because of another reason.
1
3%
I hate this series!
1
3%
I think these games are decent, just decent.
3
9%
I like these games primarily because they are challenging.
6
17%
I like these games because of another reason.
6
17%
I love this series!
8
23%
I've never played any of these games, but I'd like to.
7
20%
I've never played any of these games, and I never will.
3
9%
 
Total votes: 35

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Exhuminator
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by Exhuminator »

MrPopo wrote:1. Were you being a silly and wearing armor?
Yes. I was always wearing big heavy useless armor. (When I beat the game, I was wearing Biorr's brushwood set.) Hence I fat-rolled the entire game. I still beat DeS despite not being able to i-frame roll like a ninja. I knew I was doing it "wrong", but I wanted to prove to myself it could be done.
MrPopo wrote:Armor is complete bollocks in Demon's Souls.
I agree. You're probably better off naked. If I were to replay the game I would just be naked.
MrPopo wrote:2. There's actually an even more bullshit exploit for the final boss of 1-4 that got patched out. Here's what you do: you put on the thief ring, you slowly walk up behind the boss, and you cast poison cloud (or whatever it's called). You then slowly move away while his health ticks down. When it runs out you cast it again.
Wow. Yeah, didn't know about that. I never had poison cloud as I didn't use any offensive magic. The only spell I ever used was heal. In my version of the game, the Thief's Ring seemed to have no effect on False King's AI btw.
CFFJR wrote:3-1 was neat in concept, but the level itself is kind of obnoxious.
I agree, it takes quite a while to explore all those cells. And if you miss the boss trick with the Fool's Idol, you have to do that fight over again (and over again).
CFFJR wrote:4-1 is probably my favorite so far in terms of the atmosphere.
Indeed. World 4 was my favorite world, followed by world 1.
CFFJR wrote:I made it a point not to attack the huge monster in the middle of the courtyard here. Seemed like it was asking for trouble at this point. When is it safe to fight him?
That demon is called Vanguard. He's actually pretty easy. You just have to make a point of staying behind him and attacking his rear. He has a fairly nasty AoE attack, but he gives an obvious tell before he does it. Just roll or back-jump out of the perimeter and you'll be OK.
CFFJR wrote:You guys don't want to know how much time I spent on those two levels alone. It's just sad.
If you're playing without a strategy guide, then I don't think it's sad. I mean dude, I put 45 hours into DeS before I finished it. Granted, I spent a lot of time very methodically exploring every nook and cranny of all levels, trying to find every possible secret. I also put plenty of time into grinding for souls and upgrading my equipment.
CFFJR wrote:I have a problem where I enter a level and play slowly and methodically, make a lot of progress, and then suddenly die in some stupid senseless way. Then I get pissed and rush off to several more deaths.
I did that all the time. :lol:
CFFJR wrote:I had no issues at all with 5-1. It was a fun area
IMO 5-1 is the easiest area in the game (1-1 is more of a tutorial). 5-2 on the other hand is just a complete pain in the ass. Especially if you go into it blind.
CFFJR wrote:I know I'm still early in the game, but I'd like to note that so far I've only died one time to a boss (Tower Knight) versus a couple of dozen times in the levels themselves. Not bragging, it just seems backwards to me. I'm sure they're going to get a lot harder though.
The stuff you've cleared so far is the easy stuff. When you start clearing the X-2 areas is where the kid gloves come off. Not that I think you won't be able to handle it, but rest assured shit gets harder.
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Xeogred
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by Xeogred »

Congrats Ex! Though, I find it amusing you're ragging on Allant when he only took you 7 tries which sounds like nothing. Felt like 50 for me. Unless you just meant 7 tries on that run for the night...

Yeah there is no way I recommend marathoning these games. Take a break and come back to more later.

Second Chance is pretty much essential for NG+ and beyond. It's really not a cheap spell at that point, though it might sound like so.

I'm assuming you didn't fight this guy. Per usual this video makes him look like cake, but he could be even harder than Allant and company. Has insane HP.

http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/walk1-1-oldking

CFFJR: Yeah, Popo myself and others keep trying to drill away at that fact about armor in this one. The Black Leather set is the only armor I wore for my entire platinum run of the game if that sums it up. The slight resistance against status effects is the main thing worthwhile about armor. Mobility is the highest importance here. It's night and day how armor works in Demon's and then Dark Souls where it actually can matter.

I freaking love 3-1! I can see how it's a nuisance though. :wink:

You like the atmosphere in 4-1, but I just love world 3's atmosphere.
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by Exhuminator »

Xeogred wrote:Unless you just meant 7 tries on that run for the night...
No, I meant False King took me a total of 7 tries to beat. 3 the first night, 4 the next night.
Xeogred wrote:I'm assuming you didn't fight this guy
Gonna have to spoiler my answer
I planned to open the mausoleum after beating False King, so that I could fight the true Old King. But after beating False King, I was whisked away to the ending sequence. After beating the game, I read that it turns out if you kill Old King, that drops world 1's tendency to black by 2 degrees. Now that would have been terrible to do, as it would have made False King even harder. So I'm glad I didn't do that.
Xeogred wrote:Mobility is the highest importance here.
It's true, the game is MUCH easier if you don't fat-roll. I intentionally made DeS harder on myself.
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isiolia
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by isiolia »

Exhuminator wrote: Yep. I beat Demon's Souls. 8)
Congratulations!

Personally, I think that Dark Souls is an across-the-board improvement, but quite a lot does trace back to DeS. Having played it, you'll see a lot of callbacks in the later games that others would miss.
As for the difficulty, the way I see it, there are two ways you can beat Demon's Souls. The Easy Way and The Hard Way.
Personally, I think that line of thinking is a slippery slope.

First, because there are so many restrictions you can work under to make these games yet harder...and chances are, someone out there has succeeded at beating the game under them.

Second because quite a lot of "easy" tactics are simply making effective use of the tools that the game makes available to you. Personally, I think it's more interesting to keep it on all on the table, especially since you can't effectively build for everything all at once (well, you could eventually, but not in NG). Different builds run into different challenges. Mage builds tend to be squishy, and have MP/cast management, for instance.

Additionally, online is a double-edged sword. Well, even offline later, since the other games are all more consistent with providing NPCs to summon in lieu of other players. Still, if you can summon help, you can be invaded (or you can just plain get invaded anyway in DS2). In DeS, if you're dying in human form, you're pushing world tendency darker. Keep that up, and that world gets harder.
In either case, you're relying on limited items, boss HP scales up, soul reward gets split, etc.

I don't disagree with having a personal challenge or limit. I think doing all bosses with no summoning is common, for example, and is something that I've done for pretty much all of them at least once (the exception is one of the Bloodborne chalice bosses).
To me though, it's just that, personal challenge. I think when you start labeling things as easy mode, it presents it as the "wrong" way to play the game, which it's not. That figuring out some way, any way to get past a challenge can end up hooking someone. I think at least one of the Youtubers I've watched regarding these games mentions doing cheese strats on his first run through DeS...and he's ended up doing DS3 speedruns. What counts is having fun.

CFFJR wrote: 4-1 is probably my favorite so far in terms of the atmosphere. The rolling skeletons are pests though, heh. I made it a point not to attack the huge monster in the middle of the courtyard here. Seemed like it was asking for trouble at this point. When is it safe to fight him?
You can fight him whenever. Or not at all. He's not very hard on his own - easily taken out via ranged from the wall or the pit behind him, if you don't want to dance around him. The main thing to watch for is really getting speared from the flying mantas, so take them out first.
I know I'm still early in the game, but I'd like to note that so far I've only died one time to a boss (Tower Knight) versus a couple of dozen times in the levels themselves. Not bragging, it just seems backwards to me. I'm sure they're going to get a lot harder though.
I'd say DeS is generally like that. Most of the bosses are easy - whether due to being gimmick bosses, or just fairly passive with simple AI. It's the often long paths to get to them that are more difficult. Might be different in later game cycles though, I don't know.
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by Xeogred »

isiolia knows what's up.

Getting through Demon's levels is like conquering shmup levels. Never quite the same sense of satisfaction with the rest of them and the bonfire/warp point format. It's not like it was a one shot deal in Demon's levels either anyways, as you often opened up shortcuts to ease on the path. The bosses are quite easy in retrospect when you've played more of these, but the variety is amazing and makes this roster still stand out a lot to me.

I personally find humanoid types like Allant to be my top favorite bosses in these games. Sir Alonne is probably one of the hardest ones of all time but I fucking loved it. Lady Maria in Bloodborne was freaking awesome, that was like a straight up DMC battle. I hear the main boss of the DS3 DLC fits this mold I think, so I'm excited. There's way more I'm not mentioning, but I love these types the most. I hate Gwyn though, could never parry that jerk.

Remains to be seen what new players in these will think down the road, but don't mind me guys... just attending the Demon's is the Best class.

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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by Exhuminator »

I think Demon's Souls lack of popularity stems from being a PS3 exclusive. The other entries have a lot more exposure.
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by prfsnl_gmr »

Nice work, Exhuminator! Welcome to the club! You played the game very differently from me, and it was interesting reading about you approach to the game. I very much appreciate all of your posts, and they are what make this such a great place to read about video games.
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by Exhuminator »

prfsnl_gmr wrote:Nice work, Exhuminator! Welcome to the club! You played the game very differently from me, and it was interesting reading about you approach to the game. I very much appreciate all of your posts, and they are what make this such a great place to read about video games.
Thanks for the compliments. I too enjoy reading everyone's posts, you guys (and occasional gals) are wonderful to discuss with.
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by Xeogred »

Exhuminator wrote:I think Demon's Souls lack of popularity stems from being a PS3 exclusive. The other entries have a lot more exposure.
That's a lot of it but I don't think that's entirely it. As we higher people here on RB have seen in the lower world, a lot of other people out there have trouble going backwards if they start with a later entry in a series. I've seen that reaction a lot and have experienced first hand a few friends in person that just "couldn't get into it" despite loving later entries.

It'd be like dogging on Mega Man 2 when you like Mega Man X. I just don't get it. The DNA and mechanics are literally point for point there despite some changes. Strange people in this life.
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Re: ☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

Post by isiolia »

Xeogred wrote: It'd be like dogging on Mega Man 2 when you like Mega Man X. I just don't get it. The DNA and mechanics are literally point for point there despite some changes. Strange people in this life.
Could depend on what they particularly like in the later entries. I do think that DeS has a handful of fundamental differences though.

First is that I'd say DeS suffers from relatively inconsistent balance. Pacing between archstones varies, often leaning towards the too-long. Having all the world available (almost) from the start also provides little structure. Even the way healing items are implemented serves (at least) to make individual experiences with an area vary. To me, grasses have been feast-or-famine. Early game, you have too few, and usually less effective ones, making it an ordeal. By the end, you've probably got literally hundreds, making you nigh invincible short of getting one-shot.

Compare that to the way that Dark Souls sets things up. There are still generally multiple paths to take, but usually one or two that present themselves as more logical. There can still be plenty of variety, but the game does have an overall progression.
Being fair, DeS doesn't have much of that. Mostly, it just has a set of levels that are all required, where the rest of the series has an interconnected world, some of which you need to visit, some of which you technically don't. Structurally, it's pretty different, and that could influence player motivation.

Bonfires (and shortcuts back to them) are placed more strategically, perhaps in part because they're designed around the consistent healing you have via Estus. The only other game in the series that really has farming for basic items like that is Bloodborne, and even that's much simpler. Even then, it'll only give you 20 or so (depending on runes) per go. Again, the rest of the series refines the basic game loop a fair bit. In a way, it can be harder, since healing is objectively more limited...but it removes variables, and keeps it focused. Except DS2 and the regen rocks. I guess. :lol:

I'd say that finding/progressing in Covenants is also more straightforward than the world tendency system. It only gets easier to actually obtain and progress different weapons as the series goes on. Things like that also could be a factor.

I can't see someone who has beaten other games being completely unable to continue playing DeS...but I could see them not really feeling it.
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