Pachter on why consoles are becoming obsolete

[Forlorn Drifter]

A trend that I only see people who actively do (and can) game on PCs being positive about. Everything I look at lately, its about consoles dying, and how its going to be great for everyone... but those who are exclusively console gamers. Nobody is going to take away what I have, but they will try and take the future of my hobby.

If and when consoles go away, something will fill the role, and those things won't be DIY PCs. There will be some pre-built PC designed to play games. Or there will be a custom OS that runs on pre-configured hardware like Steam OS. There's no money in making gamers struggle for fun. The replacement for consoles will be console-like.

So...they'll be consoles? That is essentially what I'm understanding. Because in the most basic simplicity, a console is just a computer specialized to playing games. That's part of the issue I have with most of the Steambox stuff- since its running on Linux, a decent amount of stuff is not available unless you can stream from another PC. If Linux was dropped for some other form of OS that would allow me to use disks (or whatever form of physical media comes next, although there might be Steam boxes with disc drives, even though a very small portion of games still get physical releases on PC), would automate updates and all that, and if at all possible, be able to play the majority of games released on Windows rather than sticking to Linux or Mac or Android or some such, I might be willing to consider.

Now as I'm understanding it, this isn't about consoles dying, as much as it is about consoles consolidating with the PC market. Which would be fine, if competitive play could be properly balanced and use of both gamepad and M/KB would be standard across all games. Its not death, its buddying up with all the guys you hate to make more money.

[marlowe221]

sorry, I linked the wrong Cyber. I was thinking of this:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/ibuypower-s ... Id=9787177

or this:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/syber-vapor ... Id=9787113

Just to give some examples.

My point wasn't anything about price really. I was more speaking of the console experience. I think more and more we're seeing a market emerging of prebuilt PC's that aiming to be more console-like. So it's more this ease-of-use I'm thinking about. Small boxes meant to sit in the living room and be operated w/ wireless controllers much like a console.

I know that for some (mjmjr25 is my example here) the thought of dealing w/ a PC that is more console than desktop appeals to him.

Now to touch on price briefly, I agree that those are a bit more expensive than a console. Though the Syber one is $350. But they come in different configs of course. My feeling on an "open" (PC) console vs. a "closed" (Xbox/PS4/Wii) though is that as we see more and more games appearing across platforms, I'd rather spend $500+ on PC that plays thousands of games rather than pay $400 for an Xbox One that only plays Xbox One games. But that's just me.

I'm not wishing consoles dead or being some sort of elitist. I'm just saying that in watching the hobby grow lately, it feels like consoles are more like PC's nowadays, and PC's can be more like consoles. It feels like to a degree it's heading toward a direction of a more unified platform. Maybe?

Yeah, I see what you're saying. And I have no problem with the concept of an "open" console. In fact I would like to own one!

A PC that you can interact with like a console with a controller and a non-desktop interface sounds good to me. I realize, of course, that is basically what the Steam Machines are.

I suppose that the real trick is getting the price/performance balance right. So far, I just haven't seen anything worth the money compared to the current consoles, IMHO. I would love for that to change though.

The only other obstacle that I see to getting console gamers on something like a Steam Machine is the problem of system requirements. At the moment, there are too many different models of Steam Machine out there. A consumer would still need to have at least SOME understanding of computer hardware (especially graphics cards) when shopping for games and/or a Steam Machine.

When you buy a PS4 game, you know it will work on your PS4 at home. You don't have to worry about the game being too fancy for your machine (unless the game is just not well made, but that's a bit different). Personally, I think something like a Steam Machine needs a little more standardization than what has been shown so far. Maybe three different levels of hardware rather than the myriad we see now?

Edit: Just for reference, here is the Steam Machine page on Steam itself. I think all of these machines will be available in November.

http://store.steampowered.com/sale/steam_machines

[marurun]

So...they'll be consoles? That is essentially what I'm understanding. Because in the most basic simplicity, a console is just a computer specialized to playing games. That's part of the issue I have with most of the Steambox stuff- since its running on Linux, a decent amount of stuff is not available unless you can stream from another PC. If Linux was dropped for some other form of OS that would allow me to use disks (or whatever form of physical media comes next, although there might be Steam boxes with disc drives, even though a very small portion of games still get physical releases on PC), would automate updates and all that, and if at all possible, be able to play the majority of games released on Windows rather than sticking to Linux or Mac or Android or some such, I might be willing to consider.

So long as Microsoft thinks there's money in the game, there will be the possibility of a Windows option. But look at the current consoles. Very PC-like, making ports easy. But no Windows. And they only run the games designed for them. If a Steam-box came to be the successor to the console market, devs would be a lot more likely to release Linux versions of games, because that's what they'd need to do to tap into the Steam-box market. So you would still be ultimately gaining access to titles, not losing access.

Now as I'm understanding it, this isn't about consoles dying, as much as it is about consoles consolidating with the PC market. Which would be fine, if competitive play could be properly balanced and use of both gamepad and M/KB would be standard across all games. Its not death, its buddying up with all the guys you hate to make more money.

I'm not sure anyone in this thread has been arguing anything different. Noise made very much these same points, just in different words. Now, to a point, you will never be able to truly balance gamepad play against mouse/keyboard play. I think that's impossible. The different control schemes have advantages and disadvantages. That said, not all mice and keyboards are created equal. Not all gamepads are created equal. The people who pony up for nicer equipment will always have an edge. Joystick players will always have an advantage at fighting games. Mouse/Keyboard players will always have an FPS advantage.

I think what people mean when they talk about the death of consoles is the death of this proprietary market where you bought this box from this manufacturer and now you can only play their games. Hell, the most advanced arcade machines right now are all PC-hardware based and running embedded versions of Windows. The consoles are potentially only a generation away.

[Ack]

Man, console elitists are annoying.

[fastbilly1]

I see consoles moving more toward the Android/iOS market space over the PC one. In part because it means you only have to buy one copy of the game and it works at home and on the go. But this will be dictated by what the next big movement in gaming is. Just like how no one guessed rhythm gaming or Minecraft would explode, we have yet to see what will be next even if it is already here in some form. Many are betting on VR, but I think that is still several generations away. But the fact that everything is going x86, and that the low specced chips and apus are selling for pennies to OEMS and can run games from last generation* well, it is just a matter of time. Once the igus and apus get to a convergence point with price and power, which should happen within the next few years, youll see a jump in power on tablets, phones, and set top boxes, to console level. And since it is business, developers will go where the money is.

*HP Stream 200 is a $180 intel ark based mini pc. It has a Intel Celeron 2957U, 2 gigs of ram, and a 32gig ssd. Here it is running LoL, CS:Go, and Dolphin:

[noiseredux]

I see consoles moving more toward the Android/iOS market space over the PC one. In part because it means you only have to buy one copy of the game and it works at home and on the go. But this will be dictated by what the next big movement in gaming is. Just like how no one guessed rhythm gaming or Minecraft would explode, we have yet to see what will be next even if it is already here in some form.

This is actually a really good point. And yeah, I think that Android OS is likely to only expand userbase. Things like the Ouya have not been exactly successful, but I think when you look at something like the Roku and how that's become a pretty common living room fixture and you start to see others now incorporating gaming along with video streaming (Fire TV, Shield TV) and think about it as "well this is a box in my living room that can do Netflix and Minecraft... then yeah you're on to something. But like you said, we don't know what the next Minecraft will be.

Many are betting on VR, but I think that is still several generations away.

Agreed - price of entry (as in, cost of a PC that can handle it) will still be too steep for those that aren't nerds that need the latest tech. I'm still on the fence. Though knowing me... I'll probably break down and get a Rift once they announce an actual release date and start hyping it up haha.

*HP Stream 200 is a $180 intel ark based mini pc. It has a Intel Celeron 2957U, 2 gigs of ram, and a 32gig ssd. Here it is running LoL, CS:Go, and Dolphin:

Or heck, for half that someone could just buy my Dell Venue.

[Damm64]

Man, console elitists are annoying.

I prefer prestigious console gaming king.

[Ack]

You have no idea how much I wish I could officially give you that title.

[marlowe221]

I see consoles moving more toward the Android/iOS market space over the PC one. In part because it means you only have to buy one copy of the game and it works at home and on the go. But this will be dictated by what the next big movement in gaming is. Just like how no one guessed rhythm gaming or Minecraft would explode, we have yet to see what will be next even if it is already here in some form. Many are betting on VR, but I think that is still several generations away. But the fact that everything is going x86, and that the low specced chips and apus are selling for pennies to OEMS and can run games from last generation* well, it is just a matter of time. Once the igus and apus get to a convergence point with price and power, which should happen within the next few years, youll see a jump in power on tablets, phones, and set top boxes, to console level. And since it is business, developers will go where the money is.

*HP Stream 200 is a $180 intel ark based mini pc. It has a Intel Celeron 2957U, 2 gigs of ram, and a 32gig ssd. Here it is running LoL, CS:Go, and Dolphin:

This brings up an interesting point that we have not directly discussed in this thread. It seems like we talk a lot on these forums about how hardware dictates a lot about the games that run on it (the software). But I can easily see how this could work the other way around at this point in the history of the video games industry.

Minecraft is a prime example of how this could happen. I don't think that old timers like us have fully realized the impact that Minecraft will have on gaming going forward.

I mean, I'm 33 years old and I really like Minecraft a lot. But for kids that have grown up with it Minecraft is beyond genre-defining. For a lot of younger gamers, Minecraft is the definition of what video games are and should be.

I honestly believe that Minecraft will influence video gaming for decades the way Super Mario Bros for NES did when it hit the scene. The big question in my mind is what impact that influence will have on things like UI, control schemes, and hardware?

[Forlorn Drifter]

I guess I could see things going Android, but iOS I don't really see. While they have market share and some power, I don't see the gaming community hopping on that. Besides some of the older Mac games and a handful of iOS ports Android didn't see, iOS and Apple in general have generally been apathetic to gamers. On the Android front, we've already seen quite a bit of action as far as excluding mobile goes.

I do wonder how Minecraft will effect things, but we can only speculate. Perhaps an end to the focus on high level graphics. Perhaps, and I do think we are starting to see this more, a move to more "digital playgrounds" with open worlds and many things to do, sanbox to the max. Perhaps it means a continual niche of survival and building games. Perhaps it means nothing, we won't know until the effects can be seen.

Something I got reminded of today that I'm wondering about is what Microsoft is doing. There's some rumored big plans and E3/Gamescon announcements supposed to knock our socks off. There's some stuff to the idea already, in the idea of Microsoft nudging PC a bit more, and connectivity between the Xbone and PC. What might come there? I have a sneaking feeling that some type of streaming from PC to Xbone is coming, in the least. Then there's another idea we saw touched upon in this last generation that never went anywhere- Steam connections to consoles. The PS3 version of Portal 3 had connections to Steam, and Sony has shown that they are at least somewhat open to the idea of mods on console thanks to ye olde Unreal Tournament.