Nerds and Male Privilege

[Hobie-wan]

Girls play video games too?

Tell me if you find one!

[Not_a_sockpuppet]

She seems kind, yet constantly being captured by Bowser suggests stupidity because a well rounded character wouldshe learn from her mistakes and create defences of some kind to prevent being captured again.

The game never claims that being captured is her mistake or that she is dumb for not trying, that's your conclusion but the narrative of the games doesn't say that. The same applies to those fucking annoying Toads.

I also doubt there's any kind of continuity between the games so it's kind of a moot point.

Are they to assume that all women are like this, needing to be rescued, thus portraying women as weak?

If they assume a character represents every single person of that sex the problem lies not within the game. There's no more to assume than if we changed the sexes of the characters, the proposition is fallacious.

Again, a weak woman is still a person. Failure to recognize so is bad, we shouldn't treat women as women, we should treat them as people.

I realise that not all games perpetuate the objectification of women, but games continually adhere to stereotypes, which misrepresents women (and men for that matter).

I haven't found games to be better or worse in that regard than other mediums or socity as a whole.

[Key-Glyph]

Girls play video games too?

Tell me if you find one!

[Tempest]

Just read the second article. This sums up what I think of the situation:

Now to be fair: some elements of geek culture are male-dominated; comics and gaming are perfect examples of this. This does not, however mean that they're inherently intended for guys exclusively, nor does it mean that they also have to be as exclusionary to women as they tend to be.

Realizing that drawing all of your female characters with 36DDD tits and posing them in physically impossible ways in order to show off their boobs and ass at the same time while wearing dental floss costumes might be a little offensive to women is hardly the same as saying that you're not allowed to enjoy sexy art or that sexy art shouldn't be allowed. Similarly, campaigning for female characters who are more than "Hero's girlfriend" or "Fan-Service Station Attendant" doesn't mean that there can't be femme fatales or even characters who are there for titillation.

The problem isn't that these characters or drawings exist. The problem is that these are the vast majority. When 99% of the female characters, whether it be comics, movies, or video games are designed to look like porn stars and the ones that aren't can be counted on the fingers of one hand, it's not terribly surprising that women might be oooged out by it… and the implied attitudes that come with it. When your only choice for a gaming avatar are "Bustier and Thong" and "Battle Bikini", it sends the message that "You are only welcome here as a sexual object. If you do not meet these criteria, we have no use for you."

Nobody's saying that there can't be sex-kittens, voluptuous pin-ups or fetishized characters. But leavening them out with realistically proportioned females in practical costumes who aren't there to be rescued, raped, murdered, tied to the train tracks or the prize for beating the main boss isn't taking away your rights or preventing you from enjoying the games.

[cookie monster]

girl gamers exist ask foxhound 1022 he plays mario kart with one all the time he says she cheats though

Girls play video games too?

Tell me if you find one!

[foxhound1022]

I defintely agree with the fact that objectification and sexism isn't a problem with nerd culture, but society altogether. Yes, it is our duty as free-willed intelligent people within our sub-culture to identify and attempt to rectify these fallacies; but in the realism of the situation, it begins with you. Nothing will change anywhere unless there are those with the resolve to enact those changes, and while the ideology is that there can be equality in all forms, there is just too much bullshit to contradict that.

I'm not being a fatalist in my saying so, but it all falls under the crtiteria of the Risky-Shift Phenomenon. People are afraid to go against the norms of society in fear of being ostracized, belittled, etc. Yet, even within the confines of counter and/or sub-culture, I still see conformity, and the unwillingness to go against it. It has been said, “A person is smart; people are dumb, panicky animals.” Sadly, for the most part this is true. Most are so afraid, or just simply too apathetic to form their own opinions or conclusions, that they simply accept whatever fits comfortably into their current belief system.

I will not say that any change is evident, but I also believe that not enough has changed for there to be true equality. This in itself is an oxymoron, because there will always be those who desire power, wealth, fame; and are willing to trample the rights of others to achieve their ambitions. Sorry for rambling, I am disheartened by women being treated poorly within nerd culture, but I believe that this is in certain instances, as I also have observed seamless acceptance into our ranks. I personally know 5 “gamer girls”; none if which are treated any differently than our male cohorts, and are judged only by their gaming accumen.

As far as the truculent comments online, I simply chalk that up to the "Internet Tough Guy" deal. They know they can say anything without fear of physical reprisal, but wouldn't dare say shit like that to anyone's face, so blah.

So, in summation there can be change if you want it, but you have to stand up.

[Key-Glyph]

People are afraid to go against the norms of society in fear of being ostracized, belittled, etc. ... It has been said, “A person is smart; people are dumb, panicky animals.”

Nice K quotation.

Along those lines, we've talked a lot about the impact of sexism on women here, but I often think about how hard society can be on males who deviate one iota from the uber-masculine "ideal." Women are allowed a lot more freedom to blur gender lines than men are; being a little girl tomboy is at least an accepted occurence, but wrath and hellfire on the boy who lets his mother paint his toenails (or damnation upon the store that would run an ad featuring such a scenario). Clearly it's hard enough if you're a straight male and incur the torture of your peers, but I know it's terrifying if you happen to be homosexual too and become a target for that reason.

Similarly, I get annoyed when I see the trope of the idiot husband around every corner. Does it bother any guys here that so many companies depict your sex as beer-swilling deadbeats who can't even boil pasta correctly, with no greater interests than football or the hot woman walking by (especially when a girlfriend/spouse is nearby)? Maybe it doesn't because it's just one of many stereotypes that are accepted for men, as opposed to being the stereotype... but honestly. Commercials during the Super Bowl can be painful, right?

Anyway. I don't mean to quantify things or make this into a competition. I just want to say that I perceive a lot of us as being in the same sort of boat, getting hit by different waves from the same sea.

How do the guys here feel about what society is telling them they should be?

[foxhound1022]

Yeah, it does become frustrating to see that most men are depicted as depraved, moronic, jackasses; but unfortunately, it is all pandering to those who fall within the lowest common denominator. Yes, I have observed that women do have an easier time of pushing the limits of the norm, but I think it is accompanied by our open-mindedness as a society to see them as equals; as it should.

I have seen firsthand the incessant torture of homosexuals in the community through my cousin. He is a gay man, and proudly so; and he had no qualms at all about making his sexual orientation known to family and friends. Unfortunately, his coming out was in the beginning of his high school years, so slurs about his known proclivities were rampant.

I find it kind of sad that in either circumstance, it is almost always men who are the first to deride others and set a precedent for exclusion. I think that if we just listen to one another, instead of waiting for our turn to speak, we might be able to find a “happy medium” of sorts.

[harper]

Are we talking about girly men?

[Ivo]

I find it kind of sad that in either circumstance, it is almost always men who are the first to deride others and set a precedent for exclusion.

I'm not so sure of that. Women can certainly be quite "exclusive" and derisive, it may be just that they are less blunt about it. But those are also stereotypes so who knows.

Ivo.