Should America or Japan feel ashame of the lack of "Jrpg"

[Gnashvar]

Oh, come on. In which reality do spandex-wearing masked heroes abound?

Mexico and the South West United States. Luchadores, yo.

Hahaha.

You got that right!

[Hatta]

There are more good JRPGs these days than good western RPGs. They don't even make turn based western RPGs anymore, it's all hybrid FPS crap. Dragon Quest X will have turn based combat. Are there any upcoming western RPGs which can say the same?

[Inazuma]

Western RPGs are first person shooters? Lol, why am I not surprised. First person views and shooting guns are the two most popular things for Western games. I'd much rather have a 3rd person view and use melee weapons, magic or martial arts.

[MrPopo]

Western RPGs are first person shooters? Lol, why am I not surprised. First person views and shooting guns are the two most popular things for Western games. I'd much rather have a 3rd person view and use melee weapons, magic or martial arts.

Fallout, since it's set in after the war United States, involves a lot of gunplay. But you can play either 1st person or 3rd person and can confine your attacks to the action points system of the earlier turn-based entries. Skyrim is another 1st or 3rd person with melee weapons, magic, unarmed, or bow attacks. Mass Effect is a 3rd person shooter (but it's in space, so it makes sense to be a shooter) and Dragon Age is a top down RPG with melee, ranged, and magic and you can pause combat at any time to reconfigure your party's actions. You don't even have aiming; you click on your target and that's who takes damage. Calling modern WRPGs as hybridized FPS crap is just ignorant.

[Jmustang1968]

Western RPGs are first person shooters? Lol, why am I not surprised. First person views and shooting guns are the two most popular things for Western games. I'd much rather have a 3rd person view and use melee weapons, magic or martial arts.

There are more good JRPGs these days than good western RPGs. They don't even make turn based western RPGs anymore, it's all hybrid FPS crap. Dragon Quest X will have turn based combat. Are there any upcoming western RPGs which can say the same?

I would say these types of things further inflame the fanboyism of each type of RPG.

There are still turn based elements in the WRPGs they are just concealed in the combat engine. Mass Effect and Fallout have shooting elements but can be played in 3rd or 1st person. Cant recall if ME is able to first person off the top of my head though...

Dragon Age, atleast on PC, plays a lot like the Baldurs Gate games of old, but without the D&D ruleset.

Dragon Quest X also looks like a steaming pile right now, and I was really looking forward to it.

[Hatta]

Calling modern WRPGs as hybridized FPS crap is just ignorant.

It might have been an overspecific complaint, but the point is action sequences have no part in an RPG. My skill with the mouse (or analog stick as the case may be) should not affect my character's abilities. If it does, I'm not playing a role anymore. I'm succeeding or failing based on my abilities, not the character's.

And I'm not really saying that these are bad games either. But they are poor excuses for RPGs.

[MrPopo]

Calling modern WRPGs as hybridized FPS crap is just ignorant.

It might have been an overspecific complaint, but the point is action sequences have no part in an RPG. My skill with the mouse (or analog stick as the case may be) should not affect my character's abilities. If it does, I'm not playing a role anymore. I'm succeeding or failing based on my abilities, not the character's.

And I'm not really saying that these are bad games either. But they are poor excuses for RPGs.

I take it then you aren't a fan of Secret of Mana either.

[Jmustang1968]

Calling modern WRPGs as hybridized FPS crap is just ignorant.

It might have been an overspecific complaint, but the point is action sequences have no part in an RPG. My skill with the mouse (or analog stick as the case may be) should not affect my character's abilities. If it does, I'm not playing a role anymore. I'm succeeding or failing based on my abilities, not the character's.

And I'm not really saying that these are bad games either. But they are poor excuses for RPGs.

If that were the case, rpgs need our interaction at all then right? even in menu-turned based Rpgs there are still timing mechanics and rewards for good strategy.

In games like Fallout 3, there are action elements and shooter style gameplay, but your accuracy with weapons affects if you will hit or not. Same with Dragon Age for every swing of the sword. It just requires more user input.

[isiolia]

Calling modern WRPGs as hybridized FPS crap is just ignorant.

It might have been an overspecific complaint, but the point is action sequences have no part in an RPG. My skill with the mouse (or analog stick as the case may be) should not affect my character's abilities. If it does, I'm not playing a role anymore. I'm succeeding or failing based on my abilities, not the character's.

And I'm not really saying that these are bad games either. But they are poor excuses for RPGs.

In most cases you either have restrictions on what weapons you can use, penalties on your ability to use them, or both. You don't pick up any gun you want in Fallout 3/etc and shoot with the precision of, say, a Serious Sam game. You can, as mentioned, choose to use V.A.T.S. in those games too, which does put it purely on stats/chance (and wears your weapon out faster). You change combat results in those games fairly substantially based on skills/perks you take.

Your character choice often also determine what options are there for you. Can you talk your way through? Pick the lock? Hack the security? Or is your only option to kill your way through?

In a lot of ways, they're -better- representations of role playing than something that will see you march through six corridors of random encounters no matter what.

To a point, you always succeed or fail based partly on your abilities. You're the one picking the strategy, you're the one making sure to stock up on items, you're the one gearing your character/party well. Removing the action portion just puts focus on the strategy used. That doesn't make it an RPG. It makes it a strategy game.

IMO, RPGs in general are a hybrid genre. The RPG elements can be tied to plenty of different combat mechanics and still be valid.

[Hatta]

I take it then you aren't a fan of Secret of Mana either.

Fine game, but it's a lot more like Zelda than it is like Final Fantasy.

even in menu-turned based Rpgs there are still timing mechanics and rewards for good strategy.

I'm not sure what timing mechanics you're referring to. As for strategy, yes, strategy counts in a good cRPG as much as it does in a table top RPG. As it should.