Menegrothx wrote:I didn't mean to imply he's advocating cruelty for the sake of cruelty.
Nope, not for the sake of cruelty. Just because it fits him.
Is there any difference really?...
Bingo. What we consider "moral" is what fits us. Just look at the abortion debate, the death penalty debate, the meat debate, and every other difference of opinion where one person is calling the other "evil".
Now if force fed goose liver offends your personal morals then don't eat it; no skin off my back. My objection is to the original statement (bolded for emphasis)
But this... It's plain and simple torture. For our pleasure. I don't need that. And neither should you...
Blizzard Entertainment Software Developer - All comments and views are my own and not representative of the company.
dsheinem wrote:you don't think morality is subjective and contextual? are you really suggesting your morality is the "right" morality?
Come on man. I can't imagine you think that the process that creates foie gras is morally legit. Of course morals are going to be subjective, but some cases are extreme and the majority will see it as objective. Several examples of this.
Blu wrote:If you are a disciplined and patient hunter, you can lessen the suffering of the animal you are hunting.
Most farm animals are killed in an efficient and painless way anyways. It's not the killing method that matters since the whole killing process only accounts for like 0.01% of their lifespans, it's that 99.99% spent in abysmal conditions one should care about. When you go out hunting you're killing animals that have lived free, natural lives. Naturally every one isn't able to do that, so untill synthetic meat becomes a reality, we're stuck with factory farming (I doubt that most humans have the will power to become vegetarians).
MrPopo wrote:My objection is to the original statement (bolded for emphasis)
Can you name one good reason why exactly it's crucial to go through to all that unnecessary cruelty? Most Western countries already have animal welfare laws that are to some extent based on moral views (not to mention all the other moral based laws that exist), so it's not like banning that practice would mean violating some golden line the government is never supposed to cross. I'm assuming you dont oppose animal welfare laws as a whole so correct me if I'm wrong.
My WTB thread (Sega CD/Saturn games)
Also looking to buy: Ys III (TG-16 CD), Shadowrun (Genesis) Hori N64 mini pad and Slayer (3DO) in long box/just the long box
dsheinem wrote:you don't think morality is subjective and contextual? are you really suggesting your morality is the "right" morality?
Come on man. I can't imagine you think that the process that creates foie gras is morally legit. Of course morals are going to be subjective, but some cases are extreme and the majority will see it as objective. Several examples of this.
for the sake of hypothesizing morality generally, my own thoughts on the matter don't enter into it. the fact is that the treatment of animals is extremely culturally specific, and while I'd invite debate on the morality of the issue, starting from the position of "my morals are right, yours are wrong" is not useful.
MrPopo wrote:My objection is to the original statement (bolded for emphasis)
Can you name one good reason why exactly it's crucial to go through to all that unnecessary cruelty?
As I understand it, it's tastier. Apparently if you want the best flavor possible you need to stuff the goose.
it's that 99.99% spent in abysmal conditions one should care about.
What I care about is what makes the tastiest meat.
I'm assuming you dont oppose animal welfare laws as a whole so correct me if I'm wrong.
I pick and choose. I'm all for going after dirt bags who mistreat kitties but I'm not as vehement for people who abuse dogs. The difference is pretty simple: I like cats and dislike dogs. But I don't have a strong objection to treating cats and dogs the same in the eyes of the law. And I'm not going to claim my views are objectively "correct".
Blizzard Entertainment Software Developer - All comments and views are my own and not representative of the company.
Blu wrote:If you are a disciplined and patient hunter, you can lessen the suffering of the animal you are hunting.
Most farm animals are killed in an efficient and painless way anyways. It's not the killing method that matters since the whole killing process only accounts for like 0.01% of their lifespans, it's that 99.99% spent in abysmal conditions one should care about. When you go out hunting you're killing animals that have lived free, natural lives. Naturally every one isn't able to do that, so untill synthetic meat becomes a reality, we're stuck with factory farming (I doubt that most humans have the will power to become vegetarians).
That wasn't my point, but i understand what you mean. My point was that an undisciplined hunter will often shoot prematurely. For example, not waiting for the perfect shot might result in a deer getting spined, or it getting in an area where it is painful and bleeding out.
That being said, I find the conditions that these animals are being raised and the method that they're treated, absolutely disgusting. It's quite easy to be blind to the poor treatment when you're not exposed to it. However, maybe its a sense of karma that compels me to not eat an animal who has a hose jammed down its mouth, gagged, choked, and vomited in its life in a unsanitary confined cage.
I Was raised on a farm eating fresh eggs and milk my animals were mostly bought at auction and spared cruelty. Most of the livestock i bought were animals nobody else wanted like runts or elderly abused horses. I have owned just about every edible animal at some point in time. I have also worked at various types of farms and seen first hand the horrible treatment of milk cows falling and getting beaten.
Pig farms where runts are killed cause they are worthless.Turkeys that are full grown in 6 weeks cause of hormones in the feed to heavy for there own legs to support turkeys pecking and killing each other the turkeys being loaded with a conveyor belt to a truck to go be killed. The dog kennel where dogs are bred till they die or puppys that are drowned because they are the wrong color or thrown in a dumpster as runts. while i worked at these places i took home abused and unwanted animals to spare them suffering and starvation i ate some of these animals later but alot of them were found good homes or died of old age at my place. As for hunting i am all for it as long as you make a quick kill and eat it or donate it to a family that can use it. If ppl don't hunt then animals end up starving to death when they over populate a area.
