☠ Souls Series Symposium ☠

[MrPopo]

I'm going to level with you Ex, that boss you're stuck on? I fought him once, got killed by what killed you on the last attempt, said fuck it, and utterly cheesed him. I think they patched out that cheese exploit, but it was super satisfying to use complete bullshit against complete bullshit.

[Xeogred]

This applies to a lot of bosses on these, but if you force yourself to be more on the offense sometimes that really works out. I recall that being how I finally conquered Allant. I kept getting angrier and started getting way more in his face and took risks.

One of the first really old videos on youtube of some guy fighting him is hilarious to watch. He is being so ultra defensive, it's no wonder it takes him forever to kill him. There are so many openings where he could have gotten in several hits on Allant, but the player is too scared.

It's almost painful to watch this, that spear is doing jack too:




No denying that's how most of us were in 2009 though.

[Exhuminator]

Ah, I haven't actually tried the first Shadow Tower yet - I think I tried out King's Field II of the PS1 games I grabbed, but I haven't gotten around to much in the way of focused gaming this weekend.

I would very much recommend beating the first Shadow Tower before beating Shadow Tower Abyss. It will make the experience richer. Also don't use a guide with Shadow Tower, it will ruin too many surprises. Go in blind like I did and have a great time!

Patches

I understand what you guys are saying about Patches becoming a vendor. Well that's out of the question for me now. I have been using a guy that shows up in 4-2 at the beginning. He's a vendor who sells late grasses and I've just been buying those. Not as good as full, new, or dark grasses but I get by.

reappear as a red phantom on the bridge

After that certain someone died due to my flailing error. A red phantom did appear on the end of the bridge. I didn't realize that red phantom was that self same someone though. I just killed them and kept on trucking.

Got the vibe you were really turned off by the idea of the online stuff

Not turned off by it. Just didn't want the extra help it provides, and it does provide significant extra help. I say it offers far more help than harm to play Demon's Souls online, and I'll back that with facts later.

That said, I plan to play Dark Souls I & II online, just for the different experience that will offer. I would love to invade someone and ruin their night.

I'm going to level with you Ex, that boss you're stuck on? I fought him once, got killed by what killed you on the last attempt, said fuck it, and utterly cheesed him. I think they patched out that cheese exploit, but it was super satisfying to use complete bullshit against complete bullshit.

So I just read up about what you're talking about. I'm playing the final patched version of the game, so I'm hosed on that exploit.
Oh well guess I gotta just

GIT GUDDER

No denying that's how most of us were in 2009 though.

I tend to die more often by being overly aggressive rather than overly defensive. I think that's why I was able to get False King to 1/3rd his life last night, despite the fact I barely did any damage to him. He's still a super cheap unfair boss though. His fight represents the first time in all of Demon's Souls that I'd say the challenge is contrived, and not actually fair. But I will kill the bastard.

[Xeogred]

His fight represents the first time in all of Demon's Souls that I'd say the challenge is contrived, and not actually fair. But I will kill the bastard.

The Zeromus model is how all final bosses should be. No more fucking around!

I had more trouble with the Dark Souls final boss.

[isiolia]

I understand what you guys are saying about Patches becoming a vendor. Well that's out of the question for me now. I have been using a guy that shows up in 4-2 at the beginning. He's a vendor who sells late grasses and I've just been buying those. Not as good as full, new, or dark grasses but I get by.

Eh, happens. There are NPCs you probably do just want to kill anyway. I mostly mentioned the alternative to finishing them off since I wasn't really aware of it until recently. In my most recent DS1 playthrough, somehow I managed to accidentally double R2 Andre the Blacksmith...and ended up deliberately going back to finish him off, where I would have actually made use of his services had I realized I could undo aggroing him.

I tend to die more often by being overly aggressive rather than overly defensive. I think that's why I was able to get False King to 1/3rd his life last night, despite the fact I barely did any damage to him. He's still a super cheap unfair boss though. His fight represents the first time in all of Demon's Souls that I'd say the challenge is contrived, and not actually fair. But I will kill the bastard.

I would say that's more generally the case. A common refrain for strategies here is "don't get greedy". Figure out tells or patterns, find where there are openings, and take advantage of them within the confines of time/space/stamina you can spare.
The more experience you have with a fight, the more opportunities you'll recognize and be able to act on is all.

The main exception to this is probably Bloodborne, which has a handful of fights that can be DPS checks - enough damage and you'll basically keep them staggered, making it a lot easier. I'd also say that Bloodborne can basically be aggressive playstyle boot camp.

If it's his level drain thing that you feel is unfair, DeS is the only one that has it (there's a weapon for PvP that can do it too). The general style of fight, however, is not uncommon.

[Exhuminator]

If it's his level drain thing that you feel is unfair

Yes that's what I meant. That "power" is total BS.

[Xeogred]

Nah, it's KING ALLANT!!!

[Exhuminator]

Yep. I beat Demon's Souls.

It took me about seven tries to take down the False King. The arrow glitch trick didn't work in my version of the game, so I had to melee scimitar fight him to death. I pulled it off, fat rolling all the while. I still say the False King fight is total bullshit. Not because he's hard, that's fine. But stealing your soul levels is just plain WRONG. He managed to lower my soul level from 78 to 74 before I beat him.

I'll write up a proper review for this game tomorrow, but some random thoughts...

I think the combat could have been improved by two things; dismemberment and enemy friendly fire. So by that I mean, you could cut off arms, legs, heads and such while fighting. And, the enemy's attacks would hurt other enemies. When you have two or three enemies surrounding you, and they are flailing their spears and axes around, I find it kind of silly that their own attacks pass through each other like they're ghosts. It's just disingenuous considering the realism of the rest of the combat model. Also I did notice enemy arrows will still hurt other enemies, so if you're going to bother with that, why not go all the way?

As for the difficulty, the way I see it, there are two ways you can beat Demon's Souls. The Easy Way and The Hard Way. I'm going to spoiler this for people who haven't played the game yet:

(The Easy Way)
Play as a royal mage, use offensive magic like soul arrow and soul ray. Use defensive magic like Warding and Second Chance (revives the player upon death). Since most bosses are weak against magic, ranged magic really helps. And, being a mage, you will have low gear weight, meaning you can fast roll constantly, abusing i-frames and taking advantage of backstabbing galore. Next, play online. This means you can summon other players to co-op boss battles. Also online players can trade or give you items. You can read their notes that warn you of upcoming dangers or offer hints to find secrets. And, you can touch the bloodstain of a downed warrior to see how they died, which helps you understand what NOT to do, so you don't die like they did. Play an original copy of the game, which means you still have access to glitches that make some boss battles easy. Like being able to get Flamelurker legit stuck in geometry, or use the fog door glitch to kill the Maneaters, and best of all, being able to long distance arrow to death the False King, before he can even make a move on you. Also you can take advantage of the item-dupe glitch with older versions of the game. And last but not least; play with a Strategy Guide. That way you will miss none of the best gear, spells, or powerful secrets. If you play using all of these things combined, you will have a much easier time beating Demon's Souls.

(The Hard Way)
Play as a fat-rolling heavyweight melee swordsman. Use no offensive magic, do not even think about using Second Chance. Play offline, no help from other DeS players at all. Play the final patched version of the game, so you can't take advantage of any of the boss glitches or item-duping. Do not use a strategy guide, figure out the game by yourself. And don't even think about watching Youtube for tips and techniques. If you approach Demon's Souls in this manner, the challenge is increased tremendously. And this, The Hard Way, is how I beat Demon's Souls. That's why it took me 45 hours folks. Although if I were to do it again, knowing what I know now, I could probably do it in 8 hours or less.

As for the ending I got

Best I can tell you've got two endings available. They seem to hinge on if you kill the Maiden in Black or not? I killed her. Why let her put the Old One back to sleep, when putting it to sleep didn't solve the problem the first time. No, I don't think so. I two handed scimitar sliced her from behind with zero remorse. Which apparently let the Old One be free. Whatever, he knows I'm the bigger demon. Good enough ending for me.

Overall I really enjoyed Demon's Souls. As tempting as it is to just jump into Dark Souls, I'm going to take a break. It's time to go back to playing normal video games for a while, if nothing else I can laugh at their difficulty.

PS As much as I liked Demon's Souls, I still think King's Field is better.

[MrPopo]

Two things:

1. Were you being a silly and wearing armor? It does not matter your spec, the only armor that should be worn is the light armor with ailment resistances for 5-2. Armor is complete bollocks in Demon's Souls. It gets a massive buff in Dark Souls 1, then gets nerfed hard again in Dark Souls 2, and finally occupies a middle ground in Dark Souls 3 where you legitimately have to make a choice between fast and medium rolls.

2. There's actually an even more bullshit exploit for the final boss of 1-4 that got patched out. Here's what you do: you put on the thief ring, you slowly walk up behind the boss, and you cast poison cloud (or whatever it's called). You then slowly move away while his health ticks down. When it runs out you cast it again.

[CFFJR]

Congratulations on your victory Ex. I'll look forward to reading that review.

As for me, I spent several hours tonight clearing 3-1, 4-1, and 5-1, as well as doing some much needed grass farming because I was tired of running around with no resources.

3-1 was neat in concept, but the level itself is kind of obnoxious. Getting around is tedious, the wizards are bastards, and I had a very annoying falling death after I failed to spot a pit in the gloom. I didn't hate it or anything, and the statue arrow trap was neat, but I was happy to put this area behind me.

4-1 is probably my favorite so far in terms of the atmosphere. The rolling skeletons are pests though, heh. I made it a point not to attack the huge monster in the middle of the courtyard here. Seemed like it was asking for trouble at this point. When is it safe to fight him?

You guys don't want to know how much time I spent on those two levels alone. It's just sad. I have a problem where I enter a level and play slowly and methodically, make a lot of progress, and then suddenly die in some stupid senseless way. Then I get pissed and rush off to several more deaths.

All of that's kind of funny after the fact though since other than a completely avoidable fall off a ledge (dropping for items, I pushed the stick too hard), I had no issues at all with 5-1. It was a fun area, and I like the weird, haphazard structure as you descend. Although 5-2 has such a fearsome reputation that my stance may change later.

I know I'm still early in the game, but I'd like to note that so far I've only died one time to a boss (Tower Knight) versus a couple of dozen times in the levels themselves. Not bragging, it just seems backwards to me. I'm sure they're going to get a lot harder though.

Were you being a silly and wearing armor? It does not matter your spec, the only armor that should be worn is the light armor with ailment resistances for 5-2. Armor is complete bollocks in Demon's Souls.

Jeez, I've been running around in armor this entire time... I just switched to the black leather armor. The jump in mobility is nice.