Game Consoles Are Dying: A GDC Talk

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Erik_Twice
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Re: Game Consoles Are Dying: A GDC Talk

Post by Erik_Twice »

J T wrote:Yeah, Ben Cousins really downplays this in the talk and claims that because arcades had superior controllers to consoles and still failed, that the inferior controls of mobile games when compared to consoles shouldn't matter much either. But the drop in quality from console controller to mobile controller is far greater than the drop in quality from arcade controller to console controller.
It should also be pointed that the arcade games that "died" did not have such controllers and the games with steering wheels, musical instruments and light guns are the biggest money makers.

Now, the drop in quality matters to us and to the gamer. But the market of, dare I say, casuals is growing very fast and such people probably won't care, at all, about quality. This will PROPORTIONALLY reduce the market consoles have in the same vein that Farmville sells more than Quake Live.
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Re: Game Consoles Are Dying: A GDC Talk

Post by Ivo »

General_Norris wrote: It should also be pointed that the arcade games that "died" did not have such controllers and the games with steering wheels, musical instruments and light guns are the biggest money makers.

Now, the drop in quality matters to us and to the gamer. But the market of, dare I say, casuals is growing very fast and such people probably won't care, at all, about quality. This will PROPORTIONALLY reduce the market consoles have in the same vein that Farmville sells more than Quake Live.
It wasn't just some games that died, while the ones with specialized controllers didn't. The likelihood is that the surviving arcades are still there (in a niche) precisely because they rely on the specialty controllers that can't be replicated on a "good enough" level at home. As light guns appear to be good enough at home now, that must be dance pads (the home versions are flimsy) and dedicated racing controls (not just wheels, but wheels, gear sticks and pedals). Note also that before the arcade "died", even within the arcade pinball "died" and gave way to videogames.
I think this is indeed pretty comparable to how people still go to theaters to see some movies where you get significantly better experience there from the big screen etc. (e.g. 3D ones, although that didn't seem to catch on). But how much more content is made for TVs only, and think also how much of the content made for theaters would actually be made if it wasn't also going to make a significant money from TV viewers (DVD releases, subscription TV, subsidized by advertising).

The main point is that if the market share on dedicated console games drops significantly, companies won't be willing to invest into it.

Sony used PS3 partly as a way to push blu-ray over HD-DVD, will the PS4 serve a similar purpose? I also don't think it is a coincidence that they insist on using proprietary stuff on their handhelds.
Microsoft may consider not going for a next Xbox. They keep trying to get PC alternatives like "Games for Windows" - it hasn't stuck yet but who knows. I think they always had a longer-term plan in mind of transitioning people out of consoles, even the Xbox was basically a PC. Windows 8 is clearly in a direction of letting the user run the same stuff in your PC, tablet and mobile phone.
Otherwise, those gaming divisions are bleeding money, so you better hope they are getting some indirect benefits from them if you want them to go on.

Nintendo is going for the Wii U with its own "tablet", and it should be somewhat clear that they are not competing with Microsoft and Sony, but with Google and Apple (those are not two companies who you want as your rivals, particularly on top of Microsoft if they stick around the console market for another generation).

Steam provides a "consolized", consolidated experience without dedicated hardware.

I don't think anyone is saying there won't be niche markets in gaming (recent examples in Shmups). The indie scene will make whatever they feel like making caring less about market shares and so on. But if you care about certain types of high-production values games (and that is not just FPSs, Nintendo 1st party stuff also has high production values) that are not freemium and want to be sold for more than 1 USD per copy, I think there are reasons to be worried.

I'm not worried because there are enough games *currently* to last me for my lifetime (and the Wii U will bring at least one generation more of Nintendo's titles).
But people that don't care about old games and would like a constant stream of those kind of games may be in for disappointment together with an avalanche of Social games.
Think about it this way: if you cared about arcade games today, how many new arcade games are getting developed nowadays?

Ivo.
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Re: Game Consoles Are Dying: A GDC Talk

Post by Erik_Twice »

Ivo wrote:It wasn't just some games that died, while the ones with specialized controllers didn't. The likelihood is that the surviving arcades are still there (in a niche) precisely because they rely on the specialty controllers that can't be replicated on a "good enough" level at home.
That's the thing. The speaker thinks that special controllers don't matter and that arcades "died" despite having those when the reason your avergae arcade lives is because of those controllers!
I think this is indeed pretty comparable to how people still go to theaters to see some movies where you get significantly better experience there from the big screen etc.
The problem is that he blames TV for Cinema's downfall when his own graph shows that it couldn't have been the cause and the effects of the 1948's court decision has been throughly researched.

His data is also misleading because he uses "number of people who go to the cinema each week" which doesn't make sense, very few people can afford doing that every week now while cinemas were very cheap in the 40s. This is noticiable in that the Cineplex boom isn't represented, which was what really killed small cinemas as a bussiness model.


Anyways, the risk this poses to an industry so enamored with the Paretto principle is that companies who used to produce good, quality games decide to produce populist crap, probably killing themselves in the process.
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Re: Game Consoles Are Dying: A GDC Talk

Post by Ivo »

General_Norris wrote: Anyways, the risk this poses to an industry so enamored with the Paretto principle is that companies who used to produce good, quality games decide to produce populist crap, probably killing themselves in the process.
Like Zynga and Popcap have killed themselves?
(granted I don't think Zynga's business model is sustainable, but they are sure raking in the cash while it is).

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Re: Game Consoles Are Dying: A GDC Talk

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Ivo wrote:Like Zynga and Popcap have killed themselves?
(granted I don't think Zynga's business model is sustainable, but they are sure raking in the cash while it is).

Ivo.
As Zynga and Popcap will kill themselves. Tough they are already dead, they never made good games.

As you say, Zynga's bussiness model is doomed to fail. As soon as the bubble burts, and this is nothing but a bubble, they will go down. They can't prevent it because they don't offer anything of value and there's always someone who is better at making crap and stealing someone's else games. Zynga is a shallow husk and you can trick people once and twice but at the end of the day you won't make stay. While Zynga dies a fast, compeltely expected death, Blizzard will make twice as much dough and live on.

Zynga will die as soon as the market stops growing so fast, which is inevitable.
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Re: Game Consoles Are Dying: A GDC Talk

Post by BoneSnapDeez »

Consoles have another five years. The Wii U/Xbox 720/PS4 will be the last home models. The last handheld (Vita) has already been released.

I'm not entirely sure what, if anything, will replace the home systems. Smart TVs loom on the horizon, but it also wouldn't surprise me if a company (Microsoft maybe) markets a system as a "multimedia unit" that can hook to a television has all the functions of a basic PC (with keyboard and mouse hookups), internet, Netflix, BluRay/DVD, built-in casual games, Facebook apps, word processing, etc. Think of what the CD-I was aiming for, basically. Phillips was just a couple of decades too early. The lines between TV, movie players, game consoles, computers, etc is being blurred and soon we won't need several devices when just one will suffice.

Tablet/iOS/cell phone gaming will bring an end to handheld systems. As most people see it, why pay $250 for a Vita and $40 for each game when you can pay a buck a pop for games that download directly to your cell phone?

The Japanese game industry doesn't have a leg to stand on anymore. Expect to see fewer and fewer Japanese games released stateside in the upcoming years. The immediate future will be ruled by "realistic" HD shooters and FarmVille/Angry Birds throwaway app-games.

Time to stock up on retro stuff!
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Re: Game Consoles Are Dying: A GDC Talk

Post by gtmtnbiker »

MrPopo wrote:The devs are putting in a cost to buying used which exists with EVERY OTHER NON-DIGITAL PRODUCT but doesn't exist with games.
Corrected.
General_Norris wrote: As Zynga and Popcap will kill themselves. Tough they are already dead, they never made good games.

As you say, Zynga's bussiness model is doomed to fail
Popcap is owned by Electronic Arts. Plants vs Zombies is an awesome game. I have 4 copies myself (PC, DS, iPad, iPhone). I'm all-in if/when they have a sequel. The game is fun for those quick spurts of gaming that I find myself doing more frequently these days.

I just got into some of Zynga's games this weekend. Words with Friends (Scrabble), Chess, Hanging are also quick games that I'm able to play with my co-workers & family members.

I don't see those companies going away any time soon. They may not appeal to you but it does not mean they do not appeal to a significant majority.
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Re: Game Consoles Are Dying: A GDC Talk

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Ivo wrote: I think this is indeed pretty comparable to how people still go to theaters to see some movies where you get significantly better experience there from the big screen etc. (e.g. 3D ones, although that didn't seem to catch on)
Completely unrelated but I havent seen one 3D movie that actually had 3D effects, its ridicolous. When I went to see titles like Harry Potter and Pirates of the Carribean, I excepted things to really pop out at me. I have seen plenty of really neat short 3D movies in amusement parks. If they actually designed 3D movies to be like that they would draw a lot more audience, but no, they will rather kill a great idea with horrible execution. Almost reminds me of the Virtual Boy.
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Re: Game Consoles Are Dying: A GDC Talk

Post by Ivo »

gtmtnbiker wrote: Popcap is owned by Electronic Arts. Plants vs Zombies is an awesome game. I have 4 copies myself (PC, DS, iPad, iPhone). I'm all-in if/when they have a sequel. The game is fun for those quick spurts of gaming that I find myself doing more frequently these days.

I just got into some of Zynga's games this weekend. Words with Friends (Scrabble), Chess, Hanging are also quick games that I'm able to play with my co-workers & family members.

I don't see those companies going away any time soon. They may not appeal to you but it does not mean they do not appeal to a significant majority.
Zynga probably does have quality games - I've heard good things about Words with Friends (even if those games may not appeal to every audience) but from what I know of their actual business model I really think it is not sustainable - they honestly seem like they are based mostly on copying whatever else is doing well and monetizing without much concern for gameplay. Maybe I just get this impression because many people demonize them for being successful, but I think there are too many examples of rather blatant cloning for that to be the case. Not only that doesn't appeal to me personally, I also find a lot wrong in that strategy and would even say they may be an overall detriment to the industry (particularly if their example makes more companies adopt that kind of practice).

Popcap however I think has many quality games and isn't so extremely focused on just cloning other stuff (although I wouldn't be too surprised if someone showed me that they actually are). I hope I'm right on Popcap and if so that their business model is sustainable with quality stuff. My impression on Popcap is that they try to be successful by making quality, fun games with a casual audience in mind, and then heavily base them on freemium concepts. I don't find much if anything wrong in that kind of strategy, even though those games don't appeal to me personally.

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Re: Game Consoles Are Dying: A GDC Talk

Post by o.pwuaioc »

pepharytheworm wrote:
MrPopo wrote:No, I'm saying that other products have a cost to buying them used. With a car you have more maintenance to do sooner. Used books are worn down and frequently have pages ready to fall out. A used game is effectively pristine; at worst you lose out on a manual and case. That's valuable to people like us, but it doesn't matter to a large portion of gamers.
Never bought a used album I guess. Never bought a used game that didn't work either.
Bingo. CDs, records, even books are all about the same as games. If MrPopo doesn't think there are scratched games out there, then we know he's not actually debating a legitimate point of view, but rather just trolling.
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