Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?

[Exhuminator]

I get people having impressions on a game from just looking at video footage, but I do also believe that the only real way to truly make claims is to play it.

That's a fair argument, but even after playing BotW, I didn't get enthused. I didn't see much there I hadn't already seen in other previous open world games. I did not feel compelled to buy a Switch to play it.

So here's a really unpopular opinion, but hey this is supposed to be the thread for that stuff. I honestly believe there's a subconscious bias in many gamers' minds when it comes to Nintendo. Especially with Mario and Zelda if they grew up with those franchises. There's an inherent nostalgic bias built right into their brain that automatically equates Mario or Zelda with PURE AMAZING FUN. A carried byproduct of their childhood joys with the franchises. This being the case, yeah, you're going to get bumps in review scores. Because I think that bias acts as a blinder to how worn thin the game design often is.

Now before people start responding "BIAS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! THE GAMES ARE POLISHED AND AMAZING!" let me say some things first.

I grew up with Mario and Zelda, like plenty of you did. My first Mario was Super Mario Bros. on NES, my first Zelda was Zelda on NES. I grew up thinking those NES games were fantastic. And when I played Super Mario World and A Link to the Past, I was utterly blown away. I still think those SNES games are 10/10. And yet as time went on, and I played more and more Mario and Zelda games on subsequent systems, my love affair diminished. More so with Zelda than Mario. Everybody knows how I feel about Wind Waker. And both A Link Between Worlds and Skyward Sword were so boring (to me) that I just stopped playing them. The Zelda formula (outside BotW) had become painfully formulaic to the point of self-parody. Mario on the other hand is fun enough, to an extent. I loved Mario 64 and Mario Galaxy. Sunshine was a 7/10 at best, and Mario Galaxy 2 bored me to the point that I stopped playing it 2/3rds the way through. Despite glowing scores, these games simply do not blow me away, or take me to my special happy place. (And no, I'm not worn out on gaming, other games do still take me to my special happy place.)

Now that's not to say these modern Mario and Zelda games aren't good. Obviously they are good. Are they OMFG AMAZING PERFECT 10/10 good? Eh, not so much in my eyes. I can see technical flaws and half-assed rehash stuff in them that others seem oblivious to. And that's why I wonder about the nostalgia bias. Trust me dudes, I wish I could get as excited and be as entertained as you all are with these Mario and Zelda games. That would make life a little easier. But I just don't feel it. Now that doesn't mean I'm "right", or that anyone else is "wrong". It's just what I think, and how I feel. Nothing more than that implied.

SUPER UNPOPULAR OPINION: King's Field is Zelda for adults.

[marurun]

I don't think it's just nostalgia or bias. This is coming from someone who doesn't really care for 3D Zelda or Mario titles (I kinda hate Mario 64). I think Nintendo takes very good care of their flagship titles. Their design work is very thoughtful and they try very hard to go for that gestalt where their work is more than the sum of it's parts. They're not the only company that does that, but I think they do it more consistently and in many cases better than other companies. Even when I really don't care for one of Nintendo's titles, I can still see the quality and attention to detail oozing from every part of the game. Also, Nintendo does a good job bridging various changes in games in various series. There's a very strong sense of continuity and familiarity between titles. Sometimes that backfires, but Nintendo very strongly wants people to be able to pick up and game and be able to be in-tune with it, both mechanically and in tone, in very little time.

Is their work flawless and truly universal in appeal? Hell no. Are some people influenced by bias and nostalgia? Probably. Is that the primary, or even a major reason, for Nintendo's high review scores and ongoing success with first party titles? I don't believe so. I would need to see some compelling evidence, I think, in order to come around to that view.

[Sarge]

I think I'm going into this without blinders. Some of Nintendo's seminal classics never actually resonated that much with me. I mean, despite recognizing the game's importance, Super Mario Bros. has never been one of my favorite games. I think both Mario and Zelda had a rough period during the Gamecube years; that system, despite having some great games, is probably one of my least favorite. Heck, I never thought Ocarina of Time was worthy of all of the "Greatest Game of All Time" accolades it received. And Nintendo has had some notable misfires as well, so I recognize (and have for years) that not everything they make is gold. But to their credit, it's usually at least silver, so that counts for something.

[BogusMeatFactory]

@exhuminator oh I totally understand if you didn't enjoy Breath of the Wild. At least you played it. Most people toss the, "Shit," label on so many things they have never played, let alone understand.

Opinions and perspectives are all entrenched in our personal experiences and they are all our own. This is why I don't like scores, there is no real objective way to score something. It is all about that personal reviewers experiences, perspective and overall life events

[PartridgeSenpai]

You forgot another effect the console had, Sega specifically launched the Genesis before the TG16 to get a jump on the US market and Michael Katz and Sega of America made sure to have games and promotions targeted squarely at US audiences in direct response to the TG16's more Japan-centric library.

Sega couldn't have done this at all if NEC America hadn't sat on the PC Engine for almost 2 years before releasing it to the US market. Had NEC been more confident and aggressive they could have hit the US market hard before Sega had anything to offer. And if they had actually started to capture adequate market share, they might have been more aggressive courting developers to expand their game offerings that would appeal to western gamers.

I thought it was more an issue that NEC America's marketing strategy was doomed to fail from the start. I'd heard it something like: They mirrored their marketing strategy from Japan, so they only marketed it in the big cities to save money. However, America's population being far more spread out, that just resulted in basically almost no one in the States even knowing about the TG16. The US failure hit them SO bad, it crapped out their Japanese branch as well, allowing the struggling Super Famicom to make up its lost ground as the Mega Drive continued to be fairly unpopular, thus giving Nintendo the upper hand in Japan and America going into the mid-90's. I could be remembering that wrong though. Probably learned that from a Retroware TV video like 5 years ago at least Xp

[marurun]

It was far more complicated than that. There were failures at multiple levels. But those failures started extended market testing, a slow redesign phase, and temerity from NEC that delayed entry into the US market for over a year.

The following article is a fantastic read about the early life of the system.

https://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/ ... afx16_.php

[Exhuminator]

I would need to see some compelling evidence, I think, in order to come around to that view.

To prove nostalgia bias is influencing reactions and scores to Mario and Zelda games, would take a comprehensive study lead by a team of qualified researchers. To the best of my knowledge such a study has not been undertaken. Even if it were, and compelling evidence was presented, legions of Mario/Zelda fans would reject the data due to a collective Semmelweis reflex.

But to their credit, it's usually at least silver, so that counts for something.

Did you finish Phantom Hourglass or Spirit Tracks?

[Segata]

Eh not really nostalgia or bias with me either. I have always been somewhat indifferent on Zelda. I like some of the games, esp enjoyed Wind Waker and LA but many of the games I cannot stand. I'd even say OoT is no longer that good of a game and Phantom Hourglass is outright trash. Botw just takes sure existing ideas but gives you so much more freedom than most open world games and I don't mean just being able to climb. I truly feel Botw is only limited by the player's imagination since this is the first truly open world game that fits the description of a sandbox. You can solve puzzles or just do things the game devs themselves never thought of but just having that physic engine people figure ways out to do odd and interesting things. I remember once I made a motorboat by mistake using the magnet and a sword pressed on the sail. The game also doesn't litter you with pinpoints on a map. It gives you nothing until you explore it. I also like how each tower is it's own individual puzzle and again totally up to you how to solve it. Some towers littered with enemies I stealthed it even to the game wanted me to fight them. Almost any shrine puzzle you can solve how the game wants or get creative. The game paid so much attention to detail like shooting a pong with a shock arrow the fish die and float to the surface. Horizon is a Ubisoft game in design. Not much attention to detail at all. The world is not so much a playground as it is a set piece. Shooting a pond with a shock arrow will do nothing. You can't use a fire as an updraft. It has pinpoint checklists. I never say this and no Botw is not my fave game in any way but I do feel it;s a true masterpiece in game design. Sure it used existing ideas but it pretty much perfected them and expanded on them in ways no one else has. Nintendo didn't use Ubisoft manual of open world design like some.

[Xeogred]

I bet I sound pretty abrasive about my opinions sometimes, but hopefully some can tell when I'm joking a little. I wish I could explain my love for Zelda, but I don't know if I can. I just do. It's the console seller for me and the magic has never been lost. Though I completely hated Phantom Hourglass (then passed on Spirit Tracks) and have never been the biggest fan of handhelds, so despite the 3DS having all these Zelda games, I'm only just now getting around to those now that I finally have a 3DS. Link Between World's was good, but there are plenty of games I could put above it. I wouldn't even say it's essential. I still think the handheld/overhead games peaked with LTTP, LA, and the two Oracle games.

SMB1 was also my first game and I've been into Zelda every step of the way. Detailed a bit in the "What 5 games define you as a gamer?" thread. It's funny that I have nostalgia for both the NES SMB games and the All-Stars versions and frankly, I think I'd always take All-Stars SMB1 over the original. The others can flip flop, but NES SMB1 isn't one I feel I need to go back to that much anymore. And honestly I can almost say that about The Legend of Zelda too. There are nitpicks I have and the dungeons are just arenas, the game is basically all combat outside of some cryptic bombable walls here and there or pushable blocks you have to find with a little trial and error. There are plenty of third party games I could put above NES Nintendo stuff. I like Zelda 2 probably just as much as the original. It's also not perfect, but both are great. Overall, I could probably put Metroid above SMB1-3 and the NES Zelda's. I keep going back to Metroid and it holds up flawlessly to me. But I like Blaster Master and the Mega Man games even more.

I've always been a fan of the main line Mario stuff, but I'm never going crazy for him. That said, the thing about Odyssey is that to myself and maybe some others, this is finally the successor to Mario 64 I've personally been wanting. Super Mario 64 came out in 1996 (phew), it's been 21 years so I think some excitement is totally warranted. All the 3D Mario's have had some kind of shtick or gimmick, Sunshine didn't work for me, I liked the Galaxy's a lot but have some nitpicks, and I adore 3D World but can see how it's more of an offshoot. So yeah, it's been 21 years since we've gotten a simpler looking 3D Mario platformer. It has the hat gimmick, but that looks awesome and like it comes through in sprinkles for specific parts. It looks like a good time to me.

As for 3D Zelda, I have to go back to my point at the start and say... I don't know, I just love it. The blueprints for the formula and mechanics that Ocarina set in stone were perfect to me. There's this slow sense of progression in a Metroidvania kind of way that I love. But it's like if they made 100 more NES Mega Man games, I'd play and like them all. It's how Doom has stayed alive for me personally with the mod community going for 20 some years, people are still making maps and I think it's safe to say I will continue to go back and play new Doom wads for the rest of my life. If From Software wanted to keep making Souls games I would play them forever. A traditional Metroid is something I always want in my life. This is all how it goes with 3D Zelda for me too, the format really electrifies all my nodes and makes me happy. Give me a new world, dungeons, items, and heart pieces to collect and I'm hooked. The flow can be capsized if there's a bad gimmick that takes up most of the game, which is why I don't like Wind Waker much (the sailing). I was extremely skeptical about Metroid Prime back when that launched and then blown away by how it turned out, I was probably equally as skeptical about Breath of the Wild and they knocked it out of the park, after I've completely lost interest in most open world games, they did it right. I even have some nitpicks, but that game made me feel like it was 1996 again and I was under the Christmas tree. Just can't really explain that feeling. Nintendo spaces out the big main line releases, so they always come with a lot of impact.

I'm going to bed.

[PartridgeSenpai]

I don't think I"ve ever just not finished a Mario game because I've been not enjoying them. The only Zelda game I've ever done that with is Skyward Sword. There are a good few Zelda games I can look back on and say I didn't enjoy them that much, or at the very least would not want to replay them. More or less any 3D one with the exception of Majora's Mask, but I can say I've enjoyed every handheld entry at least modestly if not thoroughly. I wouldn't mind replaying Spirit Tracks, Phantom Hourglass, or Link Between Worlds someday. I'd go as far to say that I feel some nostalgia towards the train rides even ;3

I haven't played BotW yet though! I think I'll enjoy that one, though. At least enough to finish it. It doesn't seem to have the issues Skyward Sword had that kept me from going through it.

Fresh unpopular opinion: Watchdogs 2 is the best game of its style (city-focused mission-based open world) ever made.