What are you playing?

[dunpeal2064]

CV4 is, by some margin, my least favorite of the original CV games. (At least the ones worth talking about). (caveat, I haven't played x86k yet).

Its set pieces and spectacle are great! But the game just lacked resistance for me, and I actually found the multi-directional whip such a departure from the original formula that I often don't think of the game when OG Vania is being discussed.

Its still solid, of course! Similar to the Contra discussion, when discussing games of this caliber, it really does come down to preference. (But still well worth discussion!)

My favorite so far is Bloodlines. It is just... damn, damn fine whipping action, able to bring enough spectacle and new stuff to the formula to really feel fresh, while maintaining a hard, well-devised test of strength even upon multiple visits.

[Xeogred]

Nah, I was specifically knocking CV3.

I didn't really like it, with the weird multiple paths and characters mechanics it tried. I just wasn't interested enough even going into it for all that stuff and wanted to burn through it. Backtracking through an entire level was kind of boring too. And naturally I played the US version, which has that brutal checkpoint before the stairs if you die to Dracula, which was rage inducing. Yeah... I didn't really like CV3 at all, don't plan on touching it again.

I still need to beat CV2 (plan to do a hack version that reveals the silly invisible floors, lol), but overall CV is a case for me where I vastly prefer the 16bit+ installments over the 8bit originals. CV1 holds up and I appreciate its legacy, but yeah.

I'm surprised you don't like Rondo too much. The music and graphics! I would almost say that one is the Contra 3 of Castlevania, haha. It seemed to have the toughest and most advanced boss battles. And it seemed more action oriented, which is fine since that gives it a different flavor. It always took me a few runs to master the levels and was very satisfying to beat. I'd also say Richter controls quite possibly the best among these games.

Chronicles (PSX) gets overlooked a lot and rules. I love CV4 but it's pretty easy. I probably like Bloodlines more. But these three along with Rondo are pretty much all perfect in my book.

I love the Metroidvania's too though. SoTN, Order of Ecclesia, Portrait of Ruin, and Circle of the Moon being my four favorites there.

8 top tier games.

[Exhuminator]

I didn't really like CV3 at all, don't plan on touching it again.

I'm right there with you.

Chronicles (PSX) gets overlooked a lot and rules

Another great Castlevania that is routinely forgotten about:

[Xeogred]

That one is on my radar right now. I've heard some of the music and it's incredible. Seems a little longer than some of the stuff I'm going for right now though. (admittedly these Contra's take up a lot of time with trial and error haha).

[Exhuminator]

Lollipop Chainsaw

Played this last night. I'm over halfway done with it already. It sure is a Goichi Suda game.

[marurun]

One thing about Rondo is that is really, really feels like it lacks its own identity. I know CV likes to pay homage, but this felt more like a "Best Of" or Black Label than a new CV experience. Not necessarily a bad thing, as the powered up graphics and arranged OST are sweet! But it still left an odd taste.

...

That said, I appreciate it's approach to move the game towards its eventual goal, while keeping the spirit of the old games mostly in tact. Plus, some moments are very good, and actually go toe-to-toe with the better games in the series. Stage 5's fight against Death and onward (especially Stage 6, being an entire boss rush stage) were quite excellent.

Keep in mind that SoTN wasn't even a twinkle in anyone's eye when Rondo came out. Rondo wasn't meant to be a middle step toward SoTN. In fact, the multiple path stuff was more likely the game paying homage to Castlevania 2. In the very first level, when you enter the town, you can press up to read the sign, and you'll notice that town has the exact same layout as the first town in Castlevania 2.

Despite all this paying homage, I think perhaps this lack of identity you perceive in the game is more a result of you looking back on it from a post-SoTN world. I think if you view the game in the context of when it was released it actually has quite a bit of unique personality. Every game in the series builds on the ones before it, so every game plays homage. Super CV 4 on SNES looked at more "realistic" graphics, mode 7, and 8-way whip. Bloodlines introduced a new character and used the Genesis CPU to do lots of image warping and processing. Rondo utilized the Super CD format for great color and animation, and went more anime in style. Also, the backflip and item crushes are pretty unique gameplay elements, and Maria, the second playable character, is just as different as Eric LeCarde is from John Morris, if not moreso. The fact that SoTN's team chose to continue Rondo directly rather than Bloodlines or Super CV4 and that they took many of the graphics and animation directly from the game does somewhat rob Rondo of its graphical uniqueness, but you have to remember that the particular style started with Rondo, not with SoTN.

[Xeogred]

I love Rondo's gritty look. Rondo, Super CV4, and Bloodlines each have their own technical strengths, but Rondo definitely seems like it was the blueprint going forward.

Funny to think about it now, I think if CV3 had saving in between levels like Rondo, I would appreciate it a lot more. I didn't mind the branching paths in Rondo at all (even though one main path seemed impossible to find without looking up haha). And I had fun getting a 100%, getting Maria, and uncovering all the alternate paths and new levels. But since CV3 wasn't something you could put down once you started... this design was a bit of a nuisance to me.

[dunpeal2064]

I actually view Rondo specifically through a pre-SotN lens, as it was at that point that the series pretty much lost its appeal to me. My remarking on its steps towards that were mostly just in contrast to how close to the original formula the other sequels tend to tread. Worth mentioning, this is mostly in its pacing (larger rooms with less enemies) and alternate routes with different bosses.

The lack of identity, again, is coming purely from the OG games. Every song that stands out is a remix, the enemies are reused, even some entire stage design's are taken from older games. . Now, I know this is fairly standard for CV, but I feel like Bloodlines in particular had a lot more new stuff going on. Rondo feels like it brings almost nothing new to the table in terms of enemies and attack patterns, and experiencing this while listening to other game's music just cements the feeling.

All that said, I didn't dislike Rondo, far from it! Its a great game. My disappointment mostly comes from its greatness being primarily in spectacle, and not design. Yes, some of the bosses are great, and as I said earlier, pretty much the entire game from Stage 5's end onwards is solid, but the first large chunk of the game feels like taking a tour through a CV museum more than a tense, dark tread through Dracula's terrain.

[pierrot]

Every song that stands out is a remix, the enemies are reused[...]

Aw, man. Wha'? I love the B-side tracks in Rondo: Cemetery and Slash, in particular. Portrait of a Ghost Ship, and Op 13 are also highly excellent. I mean it has some of the best remixes of a few classic tracks, but I don't agree that the rest of the soundtrack isn't exceptional.

I don't like CV IV, like, at all. So, maybe people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, but Akumajo Densetsu, Bloodlines, and Rondo are my three favorites of the classic 'vanias. I also love Rebirth, but that has a lot to do with all the rad remixes that comprise the soundtrack.

Also, I kinda liked how every boss had a death-throw, but that it wouldn't actually kill the player. Getting used to the werewolf always sticks out in my memory, and the portrait fight in the ghost ship was really cool. Almost everything about the ghost ship stage is awesome. I mostly remember the sub routes in the game, though. Did you do the main path, or both, or--?

[marurun]

Dunpeal, I think you might be fixating a bit. Rondo has lots of original levels, enemies, and content and the original tunes are just as good as the remixed tunes. I think we're just going to have to decide to disagree on this. Super CV 4 and Rondo are my two favorite classic Castlevanias, because they pay homage really well and do original content really well, too. And it helps that they have the best classic soundtracks.