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Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 2:16 pm
by Tanooki
marurun wrote:Ok, just to be clear, I am not arguing From Software SHOULD add an easy mode to Dark Souls. I am arguing that doing so should have no effect on YOUR experience of the game. If how someone else experiences a game affects how you experience a game, given a single player experience, you're doing it wrong.
That's entirely how I felt you were saying it the first time, just not quite as short and blunt about it. And you're right they're making it about Dark Souls as it kept getting tossed around now for pages, but it's a general concept that should just stand on principle. It'll in the end help sell far more games if more people with limitations of some sort can enjoy it too.
Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 4:06 pm
by Exhuminator
marurun wrote:If how someone else experiences a game affects how you experience a game, given a single player experience, you're doing it wrong.
If someone can't handle a purposefully difficult game on its own terms, and instead whine for an easy mode to dampen down the experience, I argue they're doing it wrong. A great example is Marlowe's experience yesterday. Yesterday he was arguing for an easy mode for Dark Souls because he couldn't beat O&S. Then he decided to just do it anyway, and he smacked down O&S after all. He said the problem was he wasn't blocking properly, that's all it was. He didn't need an easy mode for that, he just needed to realize what he'd been doing wrong. He learned something, he got better at the game, and he made progress. All without needing an easy mode. Nobody
needs an easy mode for Dark Souls, or rather a
lazy mode if we're being honest. They just need to practice and increase their skills. Otherwise they should just watch a Let's Play, if all they care about are the sights and sounds of the game.
Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 4:18 pm
by Segata
I will make it easy for all of you. Want Souls on easy? Watch it on YouTube. Don't like what it offers to play? Don't play it. I never played a single souls game. I don't see that changing anytime soon. I love the art of these games. The gameplay isn't my thing. I'd likely die so much and quit. I am not asking for something to cater to me. I watch play throughs. I was still able to enjoy it that way.
Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 4:20 pm
by marurun
The difference is that your opinion imposes something on other players of the game, and those who would like an easy mode impose nothing on you. Accessibility for them has no impact on your play experience, but you would demand they suck it up or skip the game, which certainly impacts them. These two views are thus unequally weighted.
Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:00 pm
by Exhuminator
marurun wrote:Accessibility for them has no impact on your play experience, but you would demand they suck it up or skip the game, which certainly impacts them. These two views are thus unequally weighted.
Well, it could impact the gameplay experience because FromSoftware would have to spend time working out different balancing for each tier of difficulty, which takes away time from polishing one single core experience.
I personally believe if you want something bad enough, you should work hard enough for it. There were plenty of times while I was beating Demon's Souls that I thought I couldn't do it, that I was out of my element. But I always came back and pushed through. The elation of victory when I
did succeed was second to none, and surely by design. FromSoftware wanted the player to feel that sense of accomplishment. They made the game hard as hell for that very reason. They gave you no alternative by design. If I had instead been able to knock the difficulty down to easy, and just breezed on through, that amazing feeling would never have been there. And I would have missed the whole point.
If that doesn't sound like fun, that's fine. Play any other game that's a piece of cake (as most modern games are). Why in the world someone thinks they have the right to choose a game and say;
"I want to play that game, but I want it be easy like all my other games, and the developer should just do that because I want it." I just cannot understand that point of view. It's an entitlement mindset and I just cannot endorse it. It's like saying a movie should change its ending because you didn't understand it, or a book should be shorter because it's too long to read. Nope, I'm never gonna agree to that outlook. Not everything is for everybody, and that's OK.
Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:04 pm
by Segata
Exhuminator wrote:marurun wrote:Accessibility for them has no impact on your play experience, but you would demand they suck it up or skip the game, which certainly impacts them. These two views are thus unequally weighted.
Well, it could impact the gameplay experience because FromSoftware would have to spend time working out different balancing for each tier of difficulty, which takes away time from polishing one single core experience.
I personally believe if you want something bad enough, you should work hard enough for it. There were plenty of times while I was beating Demon's Souls that I thought I couldn't do it, that I was out of my element. But I always came back and pushed through. The elation of victory when I
did succeed was second to none, and surely by design. FromSoftware wanted the player to feel that sense of accomplishment. They made the game hard as hell for that very reason. They gave you no alternative by design. If I had instead been able to knock the difficulty down to easy, and just breezed on through, that amazing feeling would never have been there. And I would have missed the whole point.
If that doesn't sound like fun, that's fine. Play any other game that's a piece of cake (as most modern games are). Why in the world someone thinks they have the right to choose a game and say;
"I want to play that game, but I want it be easy like all my other games, and the developer should just do that because I want it." I just cannot understand that point of view. It's an entitlement mindset and I just cannot endorse it. It's like saying a movie should change it's ending because you didn't understand it, or a book should be shorter because it's too long to read. Nope, I'm never gonna agree to that outlook. Not everything is for everybody, and that's OK.
Why ya gotta troll those people with a mini map as the easy mode. Plus no trophies. You can't stream it without looking like a fool. You can't earn that Platinum. It's just slightly more convenient to play and nothing to show for it.
Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:06 pm
by Xeogred
Easy difficulties suck.
Contra Easy Corps would have been boring and wouldn't have made me feel like I became a spiritual monk transcending through the next dimension when I beat Hard Corps.
Demon's / Souls / Bloodborne are all literally PERFECT.
Peace out!
Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:07 pm
by Reprise
Exhuminator wrote:Well, it could impact the gameplay experience because FromSoftware would have to spend time working out different balancing for each tier of difficulty, which takes away time from polishing one single core experience.
.
Hmm I was on the fence with this discussion, but edging towards Marurun's side, but this is a damn good point.
Honestly, the Souls games and Bloodborne aren't that 'hard' at all though. I mean, 'hard' by my definition, in that they're actually very fair games. It's all about strategy and working out what you need to do. There's no unfair gameplay tropes that you see in traditionally hard games, e.g. artificial difficulty via cheating enemies or just ridiculous scenarios. I know the whole "git gud" thing is a bit obnoxious, but it really does apply to the Souls games.
The gameplay and difficulty balancing is crafted incredibly well.
Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:11 pm
by Exhuminator
Xeogred wrote:Easy difficulties suck.
This guy gets it.
Re: Do You Have Any Unpopular Gaming Opinions?
Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 5:12 pm
by Gunstar Green
marurun wrote:The difference is that your opinion imposes something on other players of the game, and those who would like an easy mode impose nothing on you. Accessibility for them has no impact on your play experience, but you would demand they suck it up or skip the game, which certainly impacts them. These two views are thus unequally weighted.
I still am not understanding this argument.
Ultimately there is no easy mode. FromSoft dictates what the experience is. Whether someone sees it as a flaw or a strength is irrelevant.
If they wanted people to have a different experience the option would be there. But they don't, so it's not, so what are we arguing about?
If the experience available is the experience intended why should the creators be obligated to offer an alternate experience?
