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MrPopo wrote:You also don't go for 1cc's which makes it far quicker to get through a shmup.

Hell no 1cc's are not my bag. I don't have time for all that.

Imagine trying to 1cc every game regardless of genre. Oh darn one of my party members died in this JRPG I've already spent 45 hours playing. Guess it's time to start over.

With regard to many shmups, however, I do think that there is a valid argument that you do not really appreciate or learn their mechanics unless you require yourself to get a 1CC (or some other sort of limited credit) victory.

IMO, it is fine to credit feed a "checkpoint" shmup like R-Type since you have to restart the level if you fail (and without your power-ups, making the game significantly harder). With regard to other types of shmups, I do not require a 1CC to consider the game beaten, but I always limit myself to a few credits. (I beat Deathsmiles last year with six credits, and since I enjoyed the game so much, I played through it a few more times. I never got a 1CC, but I got down to a respectable three credits.)

prfsnl_gmr wrote:I do think that there is a valid argument that you do not really appreciate or learn their mechanics unless you require yourself to get a 1CC

So if you beat Demon's Souls but died even once you never learned its mechanics? If you fall in a hole and die once beating Super Mario, you never learned to appreciate its mechanics? If you get second place even once while completing a Gran Turismo cup, you never learned its mechanics?

I get the hardcore idealism of 1cc, but let's not pretend it's required to actually say you beat a shmup.

Here we go again. Somebody get the Michael Jackson popcorn gif ready.

Nah I'm not falling down that rabbit hole again.

I'll just say that mastering a game VS beating a game, these are not the same thing.

Exhuminator wrote:So if you beat Demon's Souls but died even once you never learned its mechanics? If you fall in a hole and die once beating Super Mario, you never learned to appreciate its mechanics? If you get second place even once while completing a Gran Turismo cup, you never learned its mechanics?

That is a false equivalence. Like "checkpoint" shmups, all of the games you listed push you back to a starting point or checkpoint whenever you fail; so, you are required to learn their mechanics to progress. Many shmups are autoscrolling, however, and they progress as long as you keep feeding them credits and, presumabley, hold down the "fire" button whenever you encounter a boss. (Certainly, it would take a lot of credits to beat a shmup this way.) Accordingly - and with regard to that particular type of shmup - I do not think that learning the game's mechanics is required to "beat" them if you engage in credit feeding.

Exhuminator wrote:I'll just say that mastering a game VS beating a game, these are not the same thing.

I agree completely, and I have no intention of setting some sort of arbitrary criteria for considering a game "beaten" for the purposes of this thread. I was just noting that, with regard to certain types of shmups, a significant part of the gameplay experience and nuance is lost if you engage in credit feeding. (I also do not think that a 1CC is absolutely necessary to obtain the full gameplay experience. IMO, just limiting yourself to a set number of credits is a great way to ensure that you do not miss out on anything.)

prfsnl_gmr wrote:That is a false equivalence.

Many shmups are autoscrolling, however, and they progress as long as you keep feeding them credits

do not think that learning the game's mechanics is required to "beat" them if you engage in credit feeding.

The false equivalence here then, is some of you failing to notice I haven't been beating arcade shmups, but rather handheld and console ones. These do not support a "credit feed" system to begin with. So you can't just credit feed your way to victory with them regardless.

Exhuminator wrote:The false equivalence here then, is some of you failing to notice I haven't been beating arcade shmups, but rather handheld and console ones. These do not support a "credit feed" system to begin with. So you can't just credit feed your way to victory with them regardless.

That's not a false equivalence! Failing to notice the nature of the games on your list would be plain, old-fashioned oversight.

To clarify, my comments, while in response to your post, were a general observation rather than a critique of your gaming accomplishments this year. I can understand why you read them that way, however, and I should not have used the second-person in my post.

Console ports of shmups (and those designed for consoles) limit continues anyway. What's offered? Usually 3 or 5, right? That's still miles away from mindless credit feeding.

But yeah, this discussion is rather silly anyway. This isn't a competition so whatever "tallies" people accumulate here are irrelevant.

BoneSnapDeez wrote:Usually 3 or 5, right? That's still miles away from mindless credit feeding.

I suspect that console ports of shmups limited continues to ensure that players received the full gameply experience (and to prevent people from feeling ripped off for spending $50 on a game they could get through in a single sitting ).