Together Retro: FMV Frenzy

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Exhuminator
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Re: Together Retro: FMV Frenzy

Post by Exhuminator »

BogusMeatFactory wrote:I am backing off and letting him play the way he likes to play.


Thanks Elkin. :|

BogusMeatFactory wrote:your picks ex are in the rules but are not in the spirit / That's just not in good spirit. / It sucks the fun out of it for folks who are excited


I'm not sure why you pluralized "picks". I've only posted one game thus far.

The "spirit" of a TR thread is a subjective thing. One single participant cannot claim dominion of such a communal concept, let alone speak for everyone else's enjoyment level.

Going forward I'd appreciate not being berated for simply participating in this thread. That hurts my feelings and makes me feel bad inside. If you don't like the games people play, instead of going all ad hominem calling folks "ass" or "petty kid", why not just lead by example? Show us what a classic '90s FMV game is supposed to be. I am looking forward to reading all your reviews this month.
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laurenhiya21
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Re: Together Retro: FMV Frenzy

Post by laurenhiya21 »

Hm I'm having a real hard time finding a game that I want to play for this :| If this was just FMV in general then I might be fine, but limiting it to real actors only makes it difficult. The game that I thought I would play (since I thought it had FMV) was The Revenge of Shinobi, but I was mixing that up with that up with Shinobi Legions (aka Shinobi X). I don't have a Saturn or else I would consider playing that.

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That being said, I did find a (rather obscure) game to try out, it just didn't end too well. The game I tried was The Book of Watermarks, which is a Japan exclusive game for the PS1, but it's almost entirely in English. The intro looked rather appealing to me so I wanted to try it out. Unfortunately the game itself plays very similarly to Myst (which is bad as I can't do complex puzzles very well), and the character you play as moves extremely slowly. Since there's a lot of walking around (even when using a guide), it makes the game pretty difficult for me to tolerate for very long.

The FMV in the game looks super duper good to me (it's barely grainy at all), but the gameplay unfortunately does not make it fun for me to play. If you like Myst and have a high patience you might like this more than me though.

The intro (plus a bit of gameplay near the end):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUQICnnUxvo

I'll have to find something else to play, but at least I tried something?
Last edited by laurenhiya21 on Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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crazythink4
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Re: Together Retro: FMV Frenzy

Post by crazythink4 »

Was looking forward to tackling Riven for this month, which I've never played (only the original Myst). In the weeks leading up to April, I thought I'd revisit the original to get myself back into the Myst mindset. I played and loved the original a few times, and I had recently bought a Myst package that included realMyst with a new zone. realMyst came out in 2000 which makes it technically ineligible for this TR, so normally I wouldn't post about it here. However my experiences with it allow me to draw (what I believe to be) interesting conclusions about the original, so I will discuss those here.

The one-word review of realMyst: Yuck!

Playing realMyst really hit home how much of a guided and crafted experience Myst was. Obviously, the original Myst engine was HyperCard, so the game takes place across several still images that the player can navigate by clicking on hot spots. Whether it was due to economy of CD drive space or the effort required to put the HyperCard stacks together, the developers ensured that anything that was important to progression was usually visible within the frame at each location. In a world as detailed as Myst, important items get lost in the environment when it's fully in 3D. It's easy to miss hot spots, I found, and I can't imagine finding the secret doors in this version without lots of random clicking. Admittedly, this was true in the original in some areas, but when it's in static frames, it's not so onerous.

Another thing that becomes apparent with realMyst is how small the individual areas are. When one is clicking between the individual images in the original, there is no motion so there less sense of the amount of distance that is traveled, making it a more detached experience. This suits the game world very well, it turns out, which is based on people's ability to create worlds by simply writing a book about them. It gives everything a more ethereal feeling. realMyst totally destroys that, and it's a bit like seeing the girders and gaps in an amusement park like Disneyland; it really takes you out of the illusion.

As such, I couldn't play it. After about 20 minutes, I returned to the original Myst and found it to be a much more enjoyable experience (though how much of this is based on nostalgia I can't say).

(Note: Some spoilers ahead, which have been appropriately spoilered.)

The visuals generally hold up, given its age, mostly due to the really nice texture work. The sound effects throughout, especially the wind and water, help fill in the missing gaps where there is no animation (save for some small movie clips of water or birds that play in a few of the frames). For most of the game, the only FMV sequences are around brothers Sirrus and Achenar, who are each trapped in books you find near the beginning. The videos are low-resolution, but given that there is a lot of static it doesn't really stick out. I really appreciated the effect of washing out the lighter tones on the actors, which integrates the trapped men into the static backgrounds better and avoids green-screeny look (though some of the warping of the characters comes off as cheesy). The acting is pretty bad, but for the majority of the game it actually works out okay, as one would expect people trapped in a Phantom-Zone like environment to act a little unhinged.

Plus, it turns out that the brothers are trying to deceive the player, so having the characters themselves be bad actors is somewhat believable. Of course, this all falls apart in the bad endings, where they irredeemably chew scenery. In the endings with Atrus, the acting is appropriately more restrained, but still not great.


Myst was also remembered for its environmental storytelling, particularly around how Sirrus and Achenar behaved in each of the Ages of Myst. However, I had forgotten about the books in the library and their walls of text, which is pretty much the antithesis of environment storytelling. While it's not out of place in a universe driven by magical writing abilities, it does kill the pace of the game as reading these are required to get hints needed to solve some of the puzzles. Clearly I was able to look past this in the 1990s, but it doesn't work nearly as well now.

Otherwise, there are some trademark "Cosmic Osmo" moments (a reference to Cyan's earlier games which were largely around exploring and finding easter eggs). There are a couple of neat FMV animations which play when clicking on some objects (including an interesting jack-in-the-box). These are more curiosities than anything, but they tend to be clustered in a few places and don't feel particularly well integrated throughout the Ages.

Myst famously had some really obtuse puzzles, though I feel like they are sensible once you figure out the internal logic of the game. I never did figure out the railroad maze back in the day, and so I wound up brute forcing it (hint: audio cues). However, I did get a bit of a thrill when I solved a puzzle which I didn't remember the solution to. I have to admit that lot easier when you already understand the rules that the game runs under. That said, I figured this all out over 20 years ago when I had a lot more to tease these things apart (and I did it without a walkthrough!). I'm not sure if I have the endurance to do it these days. I guess the real test will be when I attempt Riven.

Anyway, some final thoughts:
  1. I found realMyst to be a bust, though the recently-released realMyst Masterpiece Edition may be more promising, especially as it includes a classic mode where you can click between the original hotspots. However, it's $18 at the moment and it's a bit much for a game I already own 3 copies of. Perhaps someday in the future.
  2. As I mentioned before, being able to track your mouse around really helps find a lot of the necessary hot spots, and some of most frustrating puzzles involved hot spots where the cursor didn't give this indication (like some of the secret passages). As such, I don't think Myst would play very well on a touch screen unless they added something to mitigate this.
  3. Myst really was a product of its time, where they embraced the limitations of the technology and were able to make an experience that transcended them. Without that particular combination of technology, it feels off and a lot of the design choices don't make sense. Hence, it almost feels like a perfect time capsule.

So that's one in the bag. I know I said that I wanted to tackle Riven, but I like to mix things up so I don't get all Myst-ed out. As such, I'm going to tackle The Journeyman Project: Pegasus Prime (1997). It's a remake of the original (which predates Myst by a few months, it turns out), but it's fits better with Myst than one would expect because Presto Studios would go on to make Myst 3: Exile. Plus, I'm a sucker for time travel stories, both good and bad!

I'll check back in once I've given it a run!
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Re: Together Retro: FMV Frenzy

Post by BogusMeatFactory »

@crazy

Hey! Thanks for participating in this month's together retro! Myst and sequels are some of my favorite games of all time. While I personally loved realmyst, I can absolutely understand the criticism.

I for one love reading the journals in the game. There is something about reading journals in an abandoned world that engages me a lot. Maybe it was my upbringing in text adventure games and playing games that had a very large focus on reading. I don't really know.

As for the acting.... Yeah. The brothers Robyn and rand Miller are not the best of actors, but I did thoroughly enjoy Rand's portrayal of Atrus. When they recast the brothers in Myst IV though.... oof. I want the Miller brothers back.

Now, about the free roam. A lot of people found that as a negative, but I absolutely loved it. I no longer was disoriented about where I was. Ages like Channelwood become so much more coherent following pipes and navigating the high walkways. Your sense of direction is so much more solidified.

Yes, it does make Myst Island seem smaller, but I didn't mind it so much. Plus, the added age that ties the game into URU is fascinating and has that more modern cyan charm.

Real Myst was more about testing out their engine that was later uses for Uru and Myst V than anything, but I still loved it.

I remember when I was a kid and my rich aunt came to visit us from out of state and brought us Myst with a giant stack of papers they printed from the early days of the internet. It was a guide.

They showed us how to play and they were so excited.... something I never saw from adults about a videogame. We open sirrus and achenar's books and even as a kid I was like, "Oh they evil!!!!" I didn't touch it again until the 2000s when I decided to play through the entire series and fell in love. Not a single guide was used and everything clicked for me. It stands as some of the best lore-filled games that sit on a Tolkien level of detail and care. When you tackle riven, let me know how it works out for you. That is a very very special game to me. Even if it doesn't click for you, I would recommend using something like the universal hint system to guide you. Good luck!
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Re: Together Retro: FMV Frenzy

Post by noiseredux »

Sarge wrote:Did y'all know that NBA Jam and NBA Jam T.E. on SNES has FMV? It's true! The halftime show has some clips for the former, and the latter has some on a tiny little TV screen during the end credits. The more you know.


Now that I think about it, the Sega CD version of NHL 94 has FMV in it too, doesn't it?

If you want to really stretch it, the Sega CD version of Mortal Kombat also has an FMV opening haha.
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Re: Together Retro: FMV Frenzy

Post by BogusMeatFactory »

noiseredux wrote:
Sarge wrote:Did y'all know that NBA Jam and NBA Jam T.E. on SNES has FMV? It's true! The halftime show has some clips for the former, and the latter has some on a tiny little TV screen during the end credits. The more you know.


Now that I think about it, the Sega CD version of NHL 94 has FMV in it too, doesn't it?

If you want to really stretch it, the Sega CD version of Mortal Kombat also has an FMV opening haha.


For real! Y'all need to check out the sub zero game on ps1. It is absolutely insane and puts mortal Kombat annihilation to shame in the bad acting category. Digitized fighters is fine, but take those same people and make them act and..... Oh boy!!!!
Ack wrote:I don't know, chief, the haunting feeling of lust I feel whenever I look at your avatar makes me think it's real.

-I am the idiot that likes to have fun and be happy.
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Re: Together Retro: FMV Frenzy

Post by Ack »

I managed to knock out Chapter 2 of Phantasmagoria, so now I'm starting up Chapter 3, which begins with that most incredible of all horror tropes: a picnic.

Seriously though, it does start up with a picnic. That's where I am in the game. More importantly, I've been having fun wandering around the world and finding what little quirks I can discover, such as the haunted nursery on the mansion's third floor. It has a singing ghost, a strange mist over the crib, a decapitated teddy bear, and if you click the baby's portrait by the door 7 times, you get a surprise.

I've also figured out how to skip the walking and moving animations, which is great. Yes, it's realistic how our heroine moves about, but man it can take forever. Now that I know how to skip, moving between rooms is a lot faster.

After doing some research about the game, it turns out there's an interesting little cameo by Roberta Williams. Sometimes while entering or exiting the antique store in town, you'll see a woman walk past the window; that's her. It's not her only cameo in an adventure game or for the cover of one (one of which is more infamous), but as Williams once stated in an interview that Phantasmagoria was her favorite game to work on, it does make it special.
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Re: Together Retro: FMV Frenzy

Post by BogusMeatFactory »

So I was perusing the internet and came across a delightful little scan from the internet archive from Sierra's, Interaction Magazine. It is their holiday special and is jam packed with FMV game coverage, as well as a major spread on both Phantasmagoria and Gabriel Knight 2. What is very fascinating is just how gory their content was in this magazine. In the letters to the editor, a woman complained about how their 3 year old was crying because she saw a guy killing a puppy in their last issue. Sierra's response? Deal with it. The emphasized that adults primarily played PC games and even attached a gory image from phantasmagoria. They were really trying to push their edginess at that point. It is so odd to see a magazine have such mixed messaging, with the latter half of the magazine dedicated to kids games and learning and fun! and the first half be graphic violence. Their brand messaging was all over the place. Still, I think it is very interesting to look back and see how people viewed games like SWAT, Phantasmagoria and Gabriel Knight 2. Check it out!

I am also glad y'all are enjoying Phantasmagoria. I hope that you give Gabriel Knight 2 a chance as well. The compare and contract not only in acting quality, but in puzzle design is fascinating. Sierra really backed Phantasmagoria a lot more in advertising, but I strongly feel that Gabriel Knight 2 is a far better game, not only in narrative style and pacing, but in puzzles, acting and music.
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Re: Together Retro: FMV Frenzy

Post by Exhuminator »

I found two interesting videos on Youtube yesterday showcasing FMV in cartridge based consoles like Super Nintendo, SEGA Genesis and 32X, the Game Boy Color, Nintendo 64, and the Neo Geo.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H-kh5DkZ0c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46l1K69vW4o

Some of the FMV is cartoon or render based, but a fair amount used live actors. I'm not planning on using any of those games for my upcoming TR entries here (with the exception of NG-DD, which I did use). But for folks who worry they have nothing to play for this TR, you may discover you already own a SNES, Genesis, or N64 game that conforms to the rules. Check it out!
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Re: Together Retro: FMV Frenzy

Post by Sarge »

That's how I found out the SNES versions of NBA Jam had "FMV". Still, if you're gonna play that, I definitely recommend going with the Saturn/PS1/PC version instead. I put a ton of time into it, and also the more recent followup, NBA Jam: On Fire Edition. The pinnacle of arcade basketball. :)
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