Save-States; the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

[Luke]

Its fun to me, but I'm sure everyone has fun doing different things. I like the challenge of overcoming something that seems nearly impossible to me.

Yup. It's up to your personal preference.

And it's not just the shmup genre, I would never use save states to perfect my skills at Ninja Gaiden, Bayou Billy, or Castlevania. I like to gruel it out no matter how many times I have to play the game.

[dunpeal2064]

Sure, that makes sense. Using save states in a game where your goal is just to reach the end would ruin the experience for me too. I don't play every game with save states

As far as I know, though, you aren't competitively playing Ninja Gaiden for score. When something like an STGT comes up, you have one week to get as good as you can. To me, it only makes sense to make use of efficient practice. I don't feel like I've enjoyed the game any less, and I can still go and play the game from beginning to end whenever I like. The only difference is that I (usually) understand the game on an even deeper level.

I don't want to beat Mushihimesama Futari. I've already done that, and I did so without the use of save states. I want to be THE VERY BEST (catchem.gif) at the game, and I do not think that would be possible without making use of every avenue I have to improve my skills at the game... and hell, it might not be possible even with those avenues, but fuck all if I'm not going to try anyways, because I genuinely love this game.

Plus... Something like a Ketsui 2-ALL isn't even comparable to something like Ninja Gaiden. The difficulty, and execution required to achieve a 2-ALL in this game is insane.

All that said, Luke, I would seriously enjoy watching you take down an STG, with scoring in mind. You seem to accomplish every video game-related goal you set, and I bet you would make for some excellent competition

[ninjainspandex]

What about save stating to just avoid the ram check in the beginning of a game? While playing Mushihimisama I savestated at the char select screen because everytime i F3 to soft reset it makes me go through that ram check and region bullcrap, its only like 20 seconds long but after the 20th time it gets real annoying. that way If i flub up and want to start the game over I can just reload the state and skip the ram check and go straight to char select?

[ninjainspandex]

What about save stating to just avoid the ram check in the beginning of a game? While playing Mushihimisama I savestated at the char select screen because everytime i F3 to soft reset it makes me go through that ram check and region bullcrap, its only like 20 seconds long but after the 20th time it gets real annoying. that way If i flub up and want to start the game over I can just reload the state and skip the ram check and go straight to char select?

[BoneSnapDeez]

Guess I'm in an extreme minority, but I don't even play shmups for score. I play them because I enjoy them, and I like to get "better" each and every playthrough (which I define as using fewer and fewer credits).

[dunpeal2064]

Guess I'm in an extreme minority, but I don't even play shmups for score. I play them because I enjoy them, and I like to get "better" each and every playthrough (which I define as using fewer and fewer credits).

Yeah, this is what I assume most people do. Even if I am trying to just push my score up bit by bit, I'll usually approach a shmup this way. When I am under a time constraint and have team mates in a competition, I'll use whatever I can, because the point of the game has temporarily become, "Get the highest score, as fast as you can"

Then there are things like Dodonpachi chains, where even under no time constraints, it is just far less frustrating to start at a trouble spot and be able to work it out consistently. If I didn't practice Dodonpachi with save states, I would probably be done playing it, so in some cases states makes me enjoy a game through frustrations that may have made me put the game aside otherwise.

Plus, sometimes it is fun to just jump to a fight, when you are familiar with a game. I could play Dodonpachi for 25 minutes and then fight the last boss, which is the only part in the first loop I currently find challenging... or I could fight that last boss for a few minutes, maybe a few times, and not have the worry of blowing a good run, so I can try some ballsy stuff, and maybe I'll even come out of it with a few new tricks up my sleeve.

[noiseredux]

I don't even play shmups for score. I play them because I enjoy them,

you're doing it wrong.

(blue text implied)

[nightrnr]

Guess I'm in an extreme minority, but I don't even play shmups for score. I play them because I enjoy them, and I like to get "better" each and every playthrough (which I define as using fewer and fewer credits).

I'm with you there. I generally suck at these games, but I play for survival and to be part of the intricate choreography.
Score is almost an afterthought to me (with the exception of early shooters, for ex. Space Invaders). It's there to let me know when I'm getting better and/or when I had a particularly good run. But I'm not competing and I know I'll never be perfect even just staying alive. So, I really can't be troubled with numbers unless though numbers help me in-game (Radiant Silvergun is a nice compromise).

I will say that there is so much more satisfaction from becoming proficient at a shmup than save stating to conquer.

[sav2880]

Guess I'm in an extreme minority, but I don't even play shmups for score. I play them because I enjoy them, and I like to get "better" each and every playthrough (which I define as using fewer and fewer credits).

I'm with you there. I generally suck at these games, but I play for survival and to be part of the intricate choreography.
Score is almost an afterthought to me (with the exception of early shooters, for ex. Space Invaders). It's there to let me know when I'm getting better and/or when I had a particularly good run. But I'm not competing and I know I'll never be perfect even just staying alive. So, I really can't be troubled with numbers unless though numbers help me in-game (Radiant Silvergun is a nice compromise).

I will say that there is so much more satisfaction from becoming proficient at a shmup than save stating to conquer.

Agree here, while I use save states on a lot of games that I'm learning to get better at (doing this with Mega Man now), and I treat beating it with save states as a "half-victory" as it just signifies you beat each part of the game one time, it's there as a thing for practice and working on specific parts of a game, or maybe as a first playthrough so you can get to see the full game one time through should you have limited continue and/or get pushed back to the start of a long stage or you're still just beginning (MUSHA in my case).

Score purposes, yeah, can't imagine submitting a save state score, but they serve a purpose for us SHMUP rookies!

[mjmjr25]

I used to play for survival only - it wasn't until getting into games again 4 years ago that I re-found shmups and in reading about them; found out how much of the game I was missing. Most games 1995-ish and beyond have such depth tied to how you shoot, when you shoot, and where you shoot that you really aren't experiencing the game if you don't investigate the scoring. I don't say this to sound elitist at all, I say this so hopefully those playing for survival alone take the time to find out about scoring in the game they are playing. In many cases, finding out how the scoring works...leads to extends...which betters your chances at survival. Plus, for people who don't have time for RPG's and strategy games, it is something tangible you can achieve and improve upon in short order.

There are some games where scoring and survival are intricately intertwined, there are other games where playing for score significantly impedes your ability to survive. To me, that is essentially 2 different games in one - which is a bonus.