Game series you feel started to lose their roots?

[BoneSnapDeez]

Final Fantasy, starting with 7.

[ZeroAX]

Final Fantasy, starting with 7.

I don't think that's fair. Final Fantasy was never a consistent thing to begin with. And they have evolved with the times. And if you mean that Final Fantasy 1-6 were more about gameplay and less about flashy graphics, don't forget you will always find some hardcore RPG gamers who will say that JRPGs of that time were about flash graphics and anime-style plot instead of the open ended design of the CRPGs of the time.

[BoneSnapDeez]

Final Fantasy, starting with 7.

I don't think that's fair. Final Fantasy was never a consistent thing to begin with. And they have evolved with the times. And if you mean that Final Fantasy 1-6 were more about gameplay and less about flashy graphics, don't forget you will always find some hardcore RPG gamers who will say that JRPGs of that time were about flash graphics and anime-style plot instead of the open ended design of the CRPGs of the time.

To me, 7 marks the first big "shift" in the series though. No more 2D graphics, no more Amano artwork, the beginning of the "brooding teenager" character designs, etc.

Compare the differences between Final Fantasy 6 and 7 to the differences between Dragon Quest 6 and 7.

I love FF7, but it just doesn't feel like one of the "classic" games to me.

[brunoafh]

"brooding teenager"

The only teenager in the game is Yuffie, and she doesn't do any brooding.

Also I strongly disagree that FF VII is the game that marks the series losing touch with it's roots, but I don't feel like having a bullshit FF discussion at the moment so meh.

[Runefaust]

To me, 7 marks the first big "shift" in the series though. No more 2D graphics, no more Amano artwork, the beginning of the "brooding teenager" character designs, etc.

Just want to clarify, the backgrounds were pre-rendered (2D) and Amano did quite a bit of artwork for FFVII.

Final Fantasy is the first and only name that really comes to mind in regards to losing its roots. Not so much relating to the continuity but the status of the franchise itself. It went from being the premiere JRPG that everyone anticipated to being an embarrassment, the laughing stock of its genre.

Oh, Shining Force comes to mind... Anything past SFIII I hardly consider part of the original series.

[GameMasterGuy]

Final Fantasy, starting with 7.

I don't think that's fair. Final Fantasy was never a consistent thing to begin with. And they have evolved with the times. And if you mean that Final Fantasy 1-6 were more about gameplay and less about flashy graphics, don't forget you will always find some hardcore RPG gamers who will say that JRPGs of that time were about flash graphics and anime-style plot instead of the open ended design of the CRPGs of the time.

And ones like that will dare you to find a screenshot better looking than this coming from your SNES without a cart using an enhancement chip.

[isiolia]

Just want to clarify, the backgrounds were pre-rendered (2D) and Amano did quite a bit of artwork for FFVII.

Final Fantasy is the first and only name that really comes to mind in regards to losing its roots. Not so much relating to the continuity but the status of the franchise itself. It went from being the premiere JRPG that everyone anticipated to being an embarrassment, the laughing stock of its genre.

Amano still does art for FF games, just mostly restricted to promo/additional art and logos. He did the CE box art for XIV, for example.

The last one he was credited as "original character designer" for was IX, but more for a concept art thing. Actually, he was credited the exact same way for both VII and X.

In a more general sense, that's what he does now. You don't see him credited as doing much in the way of day-to-day design/art at all in the past decade at least (here).


I wouldn't count public reception as being part of a game's roots. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, FF is still pretty much doin' what it's always done. You can't please all of the people all of the time. XIII, for its faults, still sold well, and I don't think any other recent JRPGs have even approached its numbers outside of Japan.

[foxhound1022]

Yes, I admit I did get ahead of myself on my critique of Castlevania. Yes they did start out as action/platformers, the most noteworthy being Dracula X on SNES. Also to answer your other questions; yes, I have played and own every Castlevania, except Rondo, and I believe that I gave each title a fair shake before coming to my opinions.
Ironically, out of the 3D forays, I liked the ones on N64 much more than the PS2/Xbox releases.
I'm not sure, but didn't Lords of Shadow become the earliest precursor to the Belmont lineage?
I really, really wanted to like Judgment, being both a huge fan of fighters and Castlevania. I played all the characters' stories to completion, but at the end of the day, you have a mediocre fighter at best, with the series liscensing. Plus, I just couldn't forgive the fact that they left out Richter.

[Rurouni_Fencer]

Yes, I admit I did get ahead of myself on my critique of Castlevania. Yes they did start out as action/platformers, the most noteworthy being Dracula X on SNES. Also to answer your other questions; yes, I have played and own every Castlevania, except Rondo, and I believe that I gave each title a fair shake before coming to my opinions.
Ironically, out of the 3D forays, I liked the ones on N64 much more than the PS2/Xbox releases.
I'm not sure, but didn't Lords of Shadow become the earliest precursor to the Belmont lineage?
I really, really wanted to like Judgment, being both a huge fan of fighters and Castlevania. I played all the characters' stories to completion, but at the end of the day, you have a mediocre fighter at best, with the series liscensing. Plus, I just couldn't forgive the fact that they left out Richter.

Definitely a fair opinion, (and I hope I wasn't coming off as too much of a nerd-jerk with my last reply.. Wasn't my intention..)

I'm glad to see somebody else respect Dracula X on the SNES, (as many consider it a shoddy port, when it's actually a different game in a way than it's PCE counterpart.) Personally, I feel Super Castlevania IV is the superior 16-bit 'Vania, but that's just my opinion, as others have very awesome arguments for Bloodlines as well. But I love hearing other fans enjoying Dracula X on Nintendo. If you like it on the SNES, you absolutely MUST go play Rondo of Blood right NOW!! It's on the Wii and it's cheaper than importing a copy.. (My copy cost me $100 on eBay a few years ago, and that was a good deal..)

Yup - Lords of Shadow is considered a reboot for the series, and the goal is to make Lords the "origin story" for the Belmonts and Castlevania. It's a totally different canon than all the other games. And given the ending - I'm intrigued by how Konami/Mercury Steam plan to go with the current storyline..

As for Judgment - I completely feel you! I am a huge fighting game fan, and an even bigger Castlevania nut. The disappointment set in quick when I first played it at launch and I remember not picking it up again for months after that day because I felt Konami raped Castlevania.. But after giving it some time, I enjoyed the little things and stopped looking at the big picture. Underneath the supremely average PowerStone-like gameplay and completely unnecessary anime art style, there was a game with incredible music, awesome fan service, and a story that is so damned wacky that you just can't take it serious.. I enjoyed it a lot more when I just accepted the fact that it wasn't made to sell millions of copies or make Castlevania a household name. It was just IGA having a little fun and experimenting with a new genre for his beloved series. Was it different - oh yeah! But it's not a terrible game.

And really?? You enjoy the 64 'Vanias more than LoI and CoD??
I...I really don't know what to say to that..

Finally - if anyone feels that Castlevania strayed from it's roots on the portable systems, go check out the original Gameboy games: Castlevania Adventure, Belmont's Revenge, and Castlevania Legends. Nothing stellar, but it's tried and true Castlevania on the go and, while the first game's control is cumbersome to say the least, the second and third games really feel like Castlevania Lite. Although at the end of the day - it'll just make you want to go home and fire up Dracula's Curse or Rondo all the more.

[Xeogred]

Even if you didn't like X, do you think it lost its roots? I personally think X was fantastic, and I consider that the end of the traditional, character-driven Final Fantasy games.

I feel the exact same way. I wouldn't call X a fantastic game, but I respect it for being the last true Final Fantasy we'll ever get. If the game didn't have such a dreadful story and cast, it would probably be in my top 5 favorite FFs for the gameplay and music alone.

Ditto, still had the Square Soft name attached to it too. That name had weight to it.