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[MrPopo]

...I've never met anyone that got arrested for smoking pot in their own home.

I have. Personally, and via watching COPS.

Just to play Devil's Advocate, was the entire pretense to come into the home to bust them for smoking pot, or were they called in on someone else and found them smoking pot?

Any problems marijuana may cause are dwarfed by the problems prohibition causes. I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to identify any serious problems caused by marijuana. The shit is effectively legal in Holland and Portugal and they haven't collapsed yet.

Limewater got what I was saying. But let me expand a bit. Your example is meaningless. Alcohol is legal pretty much everywhere. I will be the first ot admit that alcohol is more dangerous than marijuana. But having it legal hasn't caused a collapse either. The fact that Holland and Portugal are surviving doesn't mean that having it legal is good for the country. To be fair, just that fact also doesn't mean it's bad for the country. The only data point here is that the countries in question are not in collapse.

Feel free to enlighten me [on societal problems caused by marijuana].

I'll skip over anything related to its criminal status, as that would be moot if it were legal. Marijuana provides false contentment. I knew a few people in college who were big into marijuana and you could clearly see that they didn't strive for anything. The main reason they were in college was "because that's what you do after high school." We already have a large number of people who make no effort to try and raise themselves above where they currently are. We don't need to add to the problem.

[Hatta]

I understand what your getting at and do agree with it. However these people knew the risks before they got tied up in the drug game so they willingly set themselves up for it. I think a lot of people forget about the fact that it was a personal choice and concentrate too much on the law/drug aspect of the whole thing.

I think you're making the mistake of blaming the victim here. For instance, having homosexual sex or worshipping the wrong God is also a personal choice. Yet somehow I don't think you'd have the same reaction to someone who was in jail for those activities. Thankfully our society has come around and recognized sexual self-determination and religious self-determination as fundamental rights. Biochemical self-determination is similarly a fundamental right, one day our society will recognize that. Until that day, I will live my life as free as I can (and as discreetly as possible).

I'll skip over anything related to its criminal status, as that would be moot if it were legal. Marijuana provides false contentment. I knew a few people in college who were big into marijuana and you could clearly see that they didn't strive for anything. The main reason they were in college was "because that's what you do after high school." We already have a large number of people who make no effort to try and raise themselves above where they currently are. We don't need to add to the problem.

If they are content, what's wrong with that? What makes contentment false contentment? Not everyone needs to participate in the rat race.

[Octopod]

.

Feel free to enlighten me [on societal problems caused by marijuana].

I'll skip over anything related to its criminal status, as that would be moot if it were legal. Marijuana provides false contentment. I knew a few people in college who were big into marijuana and you could clearly see that they didn't strive for anything. The main reason they were in college was "because that's what you do after high school." We already have a large number of people who make no effort to try and raise themselves above where they currently are. We don't need to add to the problem.

I am not sure if you are aware or not but anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all.

[MrPopo]

I understand what your getting at and do agree with it. However these people knew the risks before they got tied up in the drug game so they willingly set themselves up for it. I think a lot of people forget about the fact that it was a personal choice and concentrate too much on the law/drug aspect of the whole thing.

I think you're making the mistake of blaming the victim here. For instance, having homosexual sex or worshipping the wrong God is also a personal choice. Yet somehow I don't think you'd have the same reaction to someone who was in jail for those activities. Thankfully our society has come around and recognized sexual self-determination and religious self-determination as fundamental rights. Biochemical self-determination is similarly a fundamental right, one day our society will recognize that. Until that day, I will live my life as free as I can (and as discreetly as possible).

The difference with biochemical self-determination is that while under the influence of substances your judgement is impaired and you very easily become a danger to others. Fine, you say, then let us do it in our home and we won't bother anyone. But that same impairment of judgement causes intoxicated individuals to leave their homes and carry their behavior into public.

[Luke]

...I've never met anyone that got arrested for smoking pot in their own home.

I have. Personally, and via watching COPS.

Just to play Devil's Advocate, was the entire pretense to come into the home to bust them for smoking pot, or were they called in on someone else and found them smoking pot?

I've had at least a handful of friends who have had the cops called on them because neighbors smelled dope. Very common in college dorms, and with neighbors who are just ass holes. The police came solely because people were smoking pot.

I've had a few neighbors in under and post grad that smoked a lot of pot. Never bothered me as long as there weren't a bunch of weird-o's hanging out at their places.

There are two sides of the coin for everything, even on the legalization of marijuana. I accept both sides, but I don't care for any attitude that blatantly states "What I do with my body is my business". That is an immature and self-centered way to look at things.

[crux]

But that same impairment of judgement causes intoxicated individuals to leave their homes and carry their behavior into public.

Are you really going to make this argument? That because a substance or activity has the potential for disruption that it should be prohibited entirely? Setting such precedences has enormous consequences.

Regardless of one's stance on marijuana, the fact is that the war on drugs itself is causing far more harm than it should. The answer to so many problems cited in this very topic could be eased with the dissemination of information and prevention. Television commercials don't try to prevent drug use or driving while intoxicated through education, but through scare tactics. Furthermore, the war on drugs effectively creates a system with drug cartels in which they can further choke the market and grow in strength. The war on drugs effectively increases the prices of illegal substances, which again correlates to a rise in crime in order for users to pay for their habit. Furthermore, there's no evidence that decriminalization leads to heavier usage of illicit drugs. Rates of drug consumption in the Netherlands is equal or less than many prohibition states (and lower than the U.S. in every single category). Yet prohibition itself has served to stifle research and drug education, and inherently leads to absolutely no regulation on the sale of illicit drugs.

[MrPopo]

But that same impairment of judgement causes intoxicated individuals to leave their homes and carry their behavior into public.

Are you really going to make this argument? That because a substance or activity has the potential for disruption that it should be prohibited entirely? Setting such precedences has enormous consequences.

That wasn't the point of that statement. The point was that because it can make you a danger to society you DO NOT have biochemical freedom. That is not the same as prohibition of mind-altering substances. Today alcohol is not prohibited, but you do not have total freedom with regards to your use of alcohol. Yes, my personal stance is that all illicit drugs should stay illegal, but I can easily see a situation where drugs are legal but highly controlled and regulated. What I was doing with my comment you quoted is pointing out the bullshit that marijuana supporters pull out time and time again, namely that you should be free to do whatever you want to your body and that marijuana is not harmful. This is what causes you to lose credibility.

[Overload]

Feel free to enlighten me [on societal problems caused by marijuana].

I'll skip over anything related to its criminal status, as that would be moot if it were legal. Marijuana provides false contentment. I knew a few people in college who were big into marijuana and you could clearly see that they didn't strive for anything. The main reason they were in college was "because that's what you do after high school." We already have a large number of people who make no effort to try and raise themselves above where they currently are. We don't need to add to the problem.

You can't claim that it does this to everyone. Just because you knew a few people who were affected in this way doesn't mean it's true for everyone. How do you know they didn't have that outlook before they started smoking? Pot doesn't turn people into lazy, unmotivated members of society. Well, it undoubtedly has that effect on some, but it absolutely doesn't have that effect on everyone. I know plenty of people who haven't changed a bit from smoking. Myself included.

[Hatta]

while under the influence of substances your judgement is impaired and you very easily become a danger to others. Fine, you say, then let us do it in our home and we won't bother anyone. But that same impairment of judgement causes intoxicated individuals to leave their homes and carry their behavior into public.

Then punish people for criminal behavior. Punishing people for behavior that harms no one, but you think might someday cause them to possibly do something that could be interpreted as harm to someone else, that's just pre-crime. You're going beyond "guilty until proven innocent" into "guilty before the crime is even committed"

Do you not see how insane and barbaric that is?

What I was doing with my comment you quoted is pointing out the bullshit that marijuana supporters pull out time and time again, namely that you should be free to do whatever you want to your body and that marijuana is not harmful

We keep pulling it out time and time again because it is true. I should be able to do anything I want, so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. That's called freedom.

You still haven't pointed out any evidence that marijuana is harmful BTW. So you had some loser college buddies that smoked pot and sat on their asses, so what? Who did they hurt?

Edit: Also, if you're so concerned about people behaving in a way that's a danger to others, what about sending men out with guns and telling them "bring everyone who has this plant back, and lock them in a cage"? Don't you think that might be a little more dangerous?

[MrPopo]

while under the influence of substances your judgement is impaired and you very easily become a danger to others. Fine, you say, then let us do it in our home and we won't bother anyone. But that same impairment of judgement causes intoxicated individuals to leave their homes and carry their behavior into public.

Then punish people for criminal behavior. Punishing people for behavior that harms no one, but you think might someday cause them to possibly do something that could be interpreted as harm to someone else, that's just pre-crime. You're going beyond "guilty until proven innocent" into "guilty before the crime is even committed"

Do you not see how insane and barbaric that is?

So I take it you would have issues with my stance that you need to get licensed to have kids.

What I was doing with my comment you quoted is pointing out the bullshit that marijuana supporters pull out time and time again, namely that you should be free to do whatever you want to your body and that marijuana is not harmful

We keep pulling it out time and time again because it is true. I should be able to do anything I want, so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. That's called freedom.

You still haven't pointed out any evidence that marijuana is harmful BTW. So you had some loser college buddies that smoked pot and sat on their asses, so what? Who did they hurt?

Edit: Also, if you're so concerned about people behaving in a way that's a danger to others, what about sending men out with guns and telling them "bring everyone who has this plant back, and lock them in a cage"? Don't you think that might be a little more dangerous?

And you haven't pointed out any evidence that it isn't harmful. As for your edit, isn't it dangerous to send out men with guns and telling them "bring everyone who spraypainted public property and lock them in a cage?" You can use that logic on every crime on the books.