Kickstarter "Tropes vs Women in Videogames"

[prfsnl_gmr]

lol i just realized that some of those covers are fake/funny ones. Ah, Google images

Crack Baby Sale is the best.

Hey, a deal's a deal...

[Erik_Twice]

lol i just realized that some of those covers are fake/funny ones. Ah, Google images

So...you just proved my point, right?

[BoneSnapDeez]

Do you notice recurring things? Can you make arguments about why those things might recur without reading all of the books?

Yes, I notice a distinct lack of Fabio.

Maybe Sarkeesian will discuss Ironsword next.

Oh, and there is a (horrendous) documentary being made to "rebut" Sarkeesian.
http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/08/2 ... ver-known/

[Jmustang1968]

It would have made an interesting comparison point for her videos, to discuss the differences in tropes in Japan versus US/Canadian or European game design.

Right. This is the kind of critique that stands up - she doesn't do much to account for cultural differences (across time and across cultures) in her videos (from what I've seen).

I'm more of a fan of the idea of her videos than the work itself, and I think there are fair criticisms to be made of how she talks about games...but getting mad at her for showing tropes when that's the whole point is inane.

But I am not getting mad, it is critiquing her work in which she takes things that occur, twists them out of context from how they are in a game, and labels them a trope. The Hitman killing strippers thing. She makes it seem that is part of the point of the game. It is more like strippers exist in one area and you are basically able to kill anyone that is in the game, not that the game tasks you with killing strippers or that it is glorifying violence against women.

I agree there is some misogyny inherent in games, but I think she is grasping a bit far with some of her examples, and some tropes are a bit forced.

[Exhuminator]

not that the game tasks you with killing strippers or that it is glorifying violence against women.

I have beaten quite a few Hitman games, and I cannot remember a mark ever even being female.

[Jmustang1968]

not that the game tasks you with killing strippers or that it is glorifying violence against women.

I have beaten quite a few Hitman games, and I cannot remember a mark ever even being female.

Ah then it is sexist because you don't kill equal amount of women as men.

[Forlorn Drifter]

The fact that she never brought up the Nuns in Hitman but brought up the strippers is a hilarious oversight in my mind.

Also, saw this just now (hopefully not already mentioned): http://www.joystiq.com/2015/01/27/expec ... y-in-2015/

(And I brought Joystiq in. Yay!) She's going to go over masculinity and male representation in video games, and a small series of positive women in video games. I think this is actually a really good direction for her to head right now. Both of these things have been suggested for her to be covered, and I think its a good thing for her to look at them. If we see some of these other examples, it might show the overarching issues not just for women, but for men too in games, and the fact that there are positive images of women in games.

O'course, hitting on the male side of things might piss people off if she points out the majority male, white, straight, dark haired and good looking men in games...

[Opa Opa]

not that the game tasks you with killing strippers or that it is glorifying violence against women.

I have beaten quite a few Hitman games, and I cannot remember a mark ever even being female.

There's one (1) in Blood Money. She's an agent/operative/whatever that tries to kill you.

The rest have been men to my knowledge. Should we be more inclusive and make more marks women? Is that what people want?

edit:
bird-suit woman. 2 in blood money.

[Forlorn Drifter]

There's a few female marks in Hitman:Absolution, the 6 or so Nuns, a certain someone near the beginning of the game, and another one. I don't remember who the last one was though.

[dsheinem]

But I am not getting mad, it is critiquing her work in which she takes things that occur, twists them out of context from how they are in a game, and labels them a trope. The Hitman killing strippers thing. She makes it seem that is part of the point of the game. It is more like strippers exist in one area and you are basically able to kill anyone that is in the game, not that the game tasks you with killing strippers or that it is glorifying violence against women.

I agree there is some misogyny inherent in games, but I think she is grasping a bit far with some of her examples, and some tropes are a bit forced.

I know you aren't mad, bro. That comment was directed at the mad bros, bro.

The Hitman thing was part of her "Women as Background Decoration" bit, right? I don't see what's unfair about pointing to the strippers in Hitman as an example of that. Here's the transcript of the parts where she talks about the game:

Sexual objectification is, of course, ubiquitous in mass media of all forms…

Clip: Hitman: Blood Money
“Good baby, real good! Now show me those luscious pink lips.”

…but since video games are an interactive medium, players are allowed to move beyond the traditional role of voyeur or spectator. Because of its essential interactive nature, gaming occupies a unique and potentially more detrimental position vis-a-vis the portrayal and treatment of female characters.

A viewer of non-interactive media is restricted to gazing at what the media makers want them to see. Similar to what we might see in video game cutscenes, the audience is only afforded one fixed perspective. But since we’re talking about interactive gameplay within a three-dimensional environment, we need to consider the fact that players are encouraged to participate directly in the objectification of women through control of the player character, and by extension control of the game camera. In other words, games move the viewer from the position of spectator to that of participant in the media experience.

On a very basic level, we can think of non-interactive media as engaging audiences in forms of “passive looking”, while video games provide players the chance to partake in forms of “active looking” or “active observing”.

Also:

Hitman: Absolution features a mission in which the player can create a diversion by picking up and dumping the dead body of an exotic dancer near police officers.

And specifically around the stripper/dumpster bit:

So in many of the titles we’ve been discussing, the game makers have set up a series of possible scenarios involving vulnerable, eroticized female characters. Players are then invited to explore and exploit those situations during their play-through.

The player cannot help but treat these female bodies as things to be acted upon,because they were designed, constructed and placed in the environment for that singular purpose. Players are meant to derive a perverse pleasure from desecrating the bodies of unsuspecting virtual female characters.

It’s a rush streaming from a carefully concocted mix of sexual arousal connected to the act of controlling and punishing representations of female sexuality.

In-game consequences for these violations are trivial at best and rarely lead to any sort of “fail state” or “game over”. Sometimes areas may go on high-alert for a few minutes during which players have to lay low or hide before the game and its characters “forget” that you just murdered a sexualized woman in cold blood.

Clip: Red Dead Redemption
“We gotta get outta here”

These temporary game states are implemented so that acts of violence against NPCs committed by players do not inconvenience or interfere too much with the core gaming experience. High alert serves as a faux-punishment that doesn’t “ruin the fun”, and is in fact actually designed and intended to provide an added rush to the game experience as players try to avoid or mow down law enforcement AI....

In this way these systems work to facilitate male violence against women by turning it into a form of play, something constructed to be amusing and entertaining.

Now inevitably whenever these game mechanics are criticized, some gamers try to dismiss and distance themselves from the issue by insisting that they don’t personally partake in the provided options for exploiting virtual women. But whether or not an individual player chooses to use an object for its intended purpose is irrelevant, because that object was still designed and placed in the game environment to fulfill its function.

A toaster is still a toaster regardless of whether or not you choose to make toast with it. It’s still designed for the express purpose of toasting bread. And it still communicates that fact even while sitting unused on your kitchen counter.

Likewise a sex object is still a sex object regardless of whether or not you personally choose to use and abuse her. And that fact, in and of itself, still communicates extremely regressive ideas about women.

I don't see the problem.