Classic games economics and ethics

[Betagam7]

affluent collectors line their houses with unplayed copies of Holy Diver and those of us who used to enjoy playing videogames[...]

Not to be rude, but I think you are one of those "affluent collectors". People who just want to play games do not buy Game.coms or care about original hardware or packaging.

You couldn't be more wrong, my friend. You've totally misjudged the reason why I "buy Game.coms".

Several years ago I found myself suddenly priced out of the market for the retro games I have actual nostalgia for by the exact trends that we are discussing.

First the SNES scene became so ridiculous that I dropped out on principle alone and have since mainly bought cheap repro carts of games not originally released in the west (e.g. fan translated RPGs).

Next the Neo Geo Pocket saw similar price jacking. I was lucky to gain an almost complete collection just before the ridiculous 300% spike in prices hit. Again I simply refuse to pay these prices to complete my collection and experience the handful of games I don't have.

Increasingly I began turning to classic systems that weren't the latest hipster/nostalgic fad to explore classic gaming. I got very into the Timetop Gameking and enjoyed tracking down its obscure titles, all of which needed to be hunted for but could be found on a reasonable budget. Currently I'm re-engaging with the wonderswan.

Similarly the Game.com always interested me from a historical point of view and you are quite wrong to think I haven't played it since I got one (I've actually found it quite enjoyable and if you look at my backloggery you'll see 3/5 games beaten). I'd like to get more games for it since there aren't many but AGAIN I simply won't be held to ransom (with the Game.com it's games are quite cheap but the ridiculous postage charged by US Ebayers puts me off).

I absolutely DO NOT buy games to sit on a shelf. I don't have a "game room" and I ONLY buy games with the intention of playing them and reviewing them for historical/archival purposes on my website...but I absoltutely DO play them all.

As for caring about original hardware, yes I do very much, it's an intrinsic part of playing games for me. I want the full experience. Total immersion, not some replica. As mentioned I've tried emulation and it just doesn't cut it for me. I don't value Roms and as such I can't engage with them or get any sense of satisfaction from playing them.

As for the "brief period of Utopia" I mentioned. You seem to have equated this with a "Toys R us sale" and not the near 10 year stretch of being able to affordably buy these games on ebay that it actually was.

[Jmustang1968]

So what is wrong to you about those who have a game room and collect games both to have a library of games to play and to display and enjoy?

Prices going up are usually a positive sign as they reflect interest in the hobby and demand in a shrinking supply. Whenever you have demand and interest in something, there will be those look to profit from it. But that has also helped find obscure stuff that would otherwise languish in attics and garages. People are pulling out old games and they are being scoured for and bought to be sold online, which brings games to those who would still enjoy them.

[Sarge]

The only reason we had a blissful period where prices were cheap is that people stopped valuing the games. They were old news, and folks wanted the latest and greatest. I, too, pine for those days (I wish I'd had more money then!), but they're over, never to return.

Might be a good time to keep an eye on PS3/360 games.

[Omerta]

So what is wrong to you about those who have a game room and collect games both to have a library of games to play and to display and enjoy?

Prices going up are usually a positive sign as they reflect interest in the hobby and demand in a shrinking supply. Whenever you have demand and interest in something, there will be those look to profit from it. But that has also helped find obscure stuff that would otherwise languish in attics and garages. People are pulling out old games and they are being scoured for and bought to be sold online, which brings games to those who would still enjoy them.

I'd say that the homebrew scene, inspiration for new games on new platforms, companies revisiting old franchises, refurbished or entirely new parts that would otherwise be scarce, reviews/guides/other information for relatively obscure games, people to argue/agree with on forums, etc. are all positive effects of increased interest as well.

[Anayo]

The only reason we had a blissful period where prices were cheap is that people stopped valuing the games. They were old news, and folks wanted the latest and greatest. I, too, pine for those days (I wish I'd had more money then!), but they're over, never to return.

Might be a good time to keep an eye on PS3/360 games.

I think there's a delayed ripple effect dictating what's expensive and what people throw away. In the early 2000's I collected a truckload of 16-bit stuff at thrift stores. I even passed up many treasures cause my mentality at the time was that it was plentiful and I'd always be able to find it later.

Now, I'm noticing the same trend with PS2 / XBOX / GC stuff. In the past year I've gotten maybe 30 OG XBOX games and a console, a similar number of PS2 games and a slim console CIB. Gamecube games seem to be fewer, but they still show up. PS3 / XBOX360 / Wii stuff is starting to appear on thrift store shelves in similar numbers.

My prediction: due to the Wii U's poor sales, once the "ripple effect" catches up, there's over 50 million Nintendo Switches in circulation, and the novelty has worn off, Wii U will gain cult status similar to the Virtual Boy and the Wii U will become very expensive.

[isiolia]

My prediction: due to the Wii U's poor sales, once the "ripple effect" catches up, there's over 50 million Nintendo Switches in circulation, and the novelty has worn off, Wii U will gain cult status similar to the Virtual Boy and the Wii U will become very expensive.

I think that could end up going either way. I do suspect that the Wii U will end up expensive in the long run, but I also think that many of the notable games will end up ported to the Switch anyway.

Either way, I think there's a general point to be underscored about folks less into retro gaming and more into budget gaming. Emulation aside, that's naturally going to be a moving target. There are boatloads of dirt cheap games out there, just probably more 6th/7th gen at this point.

[marurun]

I think it usually takes a couple generations for prices to start to spike. I remember around 2000 to 2004 I could find most 8 and 16-bit cartridge games pretty affordably, with the exception of the most rare or popular titles. There was a weird spike for the Final Fantasy SNES titles, Tengen Tetris, and Bubble Bobble 2 (the latter two are arguably justified). And the early days of the internet and ebay meant that a couple false rumors jacked prices on some other games, like the first Castlevania, for example. But for the most part I could get things reasonably priced. This is the window of time where small game stores could still thrive and used book and CD places carried lots of plastic as well. I remember getting Gunstar Heroes CIB for $15, and paying $20 for Link to the Past CIB. But I also didn't have a ton of competition for those items. Stores sold them because they could make money doing it, but the people trading in their stuff from 2 or 3 generations ago to get the new hotness were numerous. You used to have people trading in NES and SNES collections for peanuts toward a new PS2 at a local game store. Now, you will see folks trading in a PS3 collection for a PS4 at Gamestop. You will not see an NES or SNES collection being traded for an Xbox One S. Instead, they'll try to sell on forums or ebay.

In the early days of 8 and 16-bit collection ebay was also still young, and seller fees were very low. Some folks were jacking up shipping, but most were not, yet. Phantasy Star 2, cart only, could be won at auction for $2 with shipping of $3. And the seller didn't totally feel jacked because ebay was still working on percentages only, and ebay wasn't dominated by power sellers just yet. But you also got really weird price spikes as a result of fast-moving trends. Ebay is a different beast, now, and is catering less to individuals who want to sell oddities and more to power sellers who are effectively small businesses and consignment enterprises. That shift from an open marketplace connecting individuals to a more flea-market style mix of small storefronts has changed those dynamics a lot.

[Betagam7]

So what is wrong to you about those who have a game room and collect games both to have a library of games to play and to display and enjoy?

I don't think I said that there was anything wrong, did I? I can completely understand how collecting as a kind of "hunt" or journey of discovery can be attractive, although it doesn't always go hand in hand with playing games and often just seems to be a nerdier alternative to wallpaper that can lead to hoarding.

Like does this guy really need to have 3 copies of Holy Diver, a genuine rarity boxed and complete, just sitting there?

pic.twitter.com/7ZCRr1kFBw


I mean we all end up with duplicates when buying bundles but honestly...

[Gunstar Green]

I also remember during the "golden era" of the early 2000's that I got a lot of my games simply by asking family and friends if they knew someone with an old Nintendo/Sega. A lot of times people just gave them to me or accepted a few bucks, happy to clear the junk from their attic.

Like does this guy really need to have 3 copies of Holy Diver, a genuine rarity boxed and complete, just sitting there?

pic.twitter.com/7ZCRr1kFBw


I mean we all end up with duplicates when buying bundles but honestly...

I think it's more of a sickness at that point.

[Sarge]

Well, if you see it as an investment, then it's not a bad move. I've got some dupes, and I will sell them one of these days. Once I get off my lazy butt.