Console wars, What did the numbers go?

[RCBH928]

i know that if you care to learn about the PC it won't be rocket science, but thats the thing people don't want to learn, and if people don't want to learn then its confusing to them. It should be easy like a SNES, Plug cartridge, switch ON. End of story for the next 5 or so years, no minimum requirements no updates.
I once saw a guy who uses his laptop daily, trying to import pictures from an SD card using iPhoto(mac) thinking its the Finder. Yes, its that bad out there. Trust me people have a difficult time with PCs, and as I said if you find it easy to deal with, then be my guest. I personally would like to go back to PC gaming, but with a 360/N64/wii/gamecube I don't see a "need to buy a 600-700 gaming PC setup not to mention make a place for it in my room which I don't have any.

VGChartz numbers are screwed and I did mention this at the start of this thread.
This thread is going somewhere if someone can tell us where the ps2 players went. While I did put into consideration many of what the guys here said, one thing I won't believe is that most ps2 owners switched to Wii. The idea that shovel ware was the reason for ps2 success, or for its majority user base of "casual" players, doesn't make sense because in this forum is where I read how shovel ware is unwanted and not played by "many". So how come shovel ware is what drives the market now?

[Erik_Twice]

i know that if you care to learn about the PC it won't be rocket science, but thats the thing people don't want to learn, and if people don't want to learn then its confusing to them.

Everything is hard if you don't want to learn. That doesn't make it hard. It's as hard to game on a PC than on any console, or do you think The Sims was a hard sell to most people?

Really, there's absolutedly no reason why running a game is harder than running facebook or any other program people normally use. If the average customer can run facebook, they can run any PC game, to argue otherwise is bullshit.

The idea that shovel ware was the reason for ps2 success, or for its majority user base of "casual" players, doesn't make sense because in this forum is where I read how shovel ware is unwanted and not played by "many". So how come shovel ware is what drives the market now

No, we don't play them. But Carnival Games or the Imagine series break one million copies sold while Cave is going out of bussiness.

It's not like it doesn't happen elsewhere, Twilight and Transformers were the movie equivalent of shovelware and see how many people saw them.

[RCBH928]

@General Norris
As I said, I personally not complaining about how hard it is to game on a PC. I was trying to tell you that PC's are harder to dominate as the gamer's machine for the average consumer. You think its not harder than running Facebook, but it is. I say this because I have seen it happen. I have a friend that thinks restarting a router will ruin the internet configuration. I am not against PC gaming, I am just trying to say its harder for the average person to operate than a console.

as for shovel ware, is it shovel ware that drives the market now? More shovel , top console?

[sabrage]

The question has been answered. The numbers are roughly the same - the PS2 players, that is to say kids, all went with the Wii. The former PS2 generation grew up a bit and moved on to other interests, and by now I'm willing to bet many of them have stopped playing games entirely. If you're just going to say "I WON'T ACCEPT THAT" blindly based off anecdotal evidence, you can keep bumping this thread all you want but the answers won't change.

[Erik_Twice]

You think its not harder than running Facebook, but it is. I say this because I have seen it happen.

I have also seen people who fail to grasp even the most simple things but I truly don't see any difference between playing on a PS3 and a PC. Both require you to put the disc and when the game's windows pops up, hit play. That isn't hard, really.

Anyways, we aren't going anywhere so let's put it aside.

as for shovel ware, is it shovel ware that drives the market now? More shovel , top console?

Unfortunatedly, yes tough there's an egg or chicken cycle, a more popular console will have more shovelware and having shovelware will make a console more popular.

As gaming becomes more popular the average level of involvement with the medium decreases. I research each game throughly, notice for even the smallest piece of level design and like several hard games, which means I like very few things but the ones I do, I enjoy greatly.

Someone with very little involvement, simply won't care. They won't notice level design, nor know it exists and having a puppy in the cover will be enough for them. They won'ty play a hard game or a complex one because they don't want to get involved.

Good design tends to require involvement thus people prefer shitty games that put themselves at your feet that games with any semblance of self-respect. Have you never seen someone complain that a game requires you to think? It's the same concept, instant-gratification, even if shallow is better than one you have to give up something to enjoy.

[ejamer]

Try to think about something outside of your own tiny circle of experience for a moment.

As has been mentioned before, it's not just having shovelware* that makes a console successful. It's also price and consumer awareness. Wii had the lowest price, the most games (even if many of them were what you consider "shovelware"), and by far the best consumer awareness among people who aren't mainstream gamers. Last generation the PS2 was winning on 2/3 of those categories; this time it's Wii all the way. Get over it.

Gamers are a small niche. Just because you go to forums online where gamers congregate and have a few friends with similar tastes doesn't mean that is what the majority of people actually want.

Then again, maybe all the real gamers are dead, orr went out and got jobs and families, or just don't have time to waste with trivial pursuits. Believe whatever you want.


*Worth noting that what you consider to be "shovelware" probably includes games that other people (kids, parents, non-gamers, and gamers with different tastes) really want to play.

This is the same for every hobby: when most people get more serious about what they are doing, they look for something that goes beyond the normal experience and no longer appreciate the same things as people who are less involved. The rest of the world prefers to just skim the surface and keep everything simple and familiar though - which goes a long way to explain CoD sales if you ask me.

[RCBH928]

Oh well, then I will agree on most of what you all said:
PS2 100m+ fan base moved on to be Wii players.
I guess that concludes this thread

[SNKnicotine]

Sorry if there are any typos or errors

wii:
i feel the reason the wii did so well was because it was a console, that was aimed to impress and apeal to most everyone alive. it served as a party game, execise machine, gamecube player, and much more so, people who didnt game were interested with the motion based concept of the wii.thats great and all but the 50m of gamers that were happy with the previous gen of consoles were ostrosized from the community because the wii was good at alot of thing but not great at one,serious gaming!!.while nintendo was trying to keep afloat(dodge bankruptcy because the gameboy micro and the gamecube flopped because of poor sales) by making money on a sell out conole. all the mean while the xbox360 and the ps3 were in a rat race to see who could stuff more powerful hardware into a box while forgetting that games are what make consoles desirable both had slow sales.

xbox 360: the xbox was just a rehash of the original with better graphics,louder fans and crappier hardware. really making it a bland console and only having any kind of appeal because of its library

PS3: tried the same trick for the third time and failed miserably. sonys game plan was to release a system that offers new trendy technology that people would be pressed on buying.

Example: Playstation 1 read optical disk games and also played music cd

Playstation 2 Offered a awesome console that also played DVD's

See a trend yet....

PlayStation 3: OK game console that also plays BLU-rays

the companys have forgotten why people game and just want sell you on a hype
latest example THE GAMEBOY 3DS

[RyaNtheSlayA]

Here we go again.

wii:
i feel the reason the wii did so well was because it was a console, that was aimed to impress and apeal to most everyone alive. it served as a party game, execise machine, gamecube player, and much more so, people who didnt game were interested with the motion based concept of the wii.thats great and all but the 50m of gamers that were happy with the previous gen of consoles were ostrosized from the community because the wii was good at alot of thing but not great at one,serious gaming!!.while nintendo was trying to keep afloat(dodge bankruptcy because the gameboy micro and the gamecube flopped because of poor sales) by making money on a sell out conole. all the mean while the xbox360 and the ps3 were in a rat race to see who could stuff more powerful hardware into a box while forgetting that games are what make consoles desirable both had slow sales.

Nintendo was never in danger of bankruptcy. With the exception of the 3DS, all their hardware was sold at a profit. Despite selling very few consoles, the Gamecube made them money. I also fail to see how the Micro was a bad decision at all. It also made money and found a niche crowd that really loves the thing. Not to mention the huge amount the GBA and SP sold. If anything was going to kill Nintendo, it was their internal struggles, not a lack of funds.

While the Wii definitely attracted a huge amount of shovelware and casual games, there are plenty of "hardcore" titles on the system. I fail to see how it's a sell out console. If anything, it was the smartest business move in gaming history. Just because third parties throw crap on the Wii doesn't mean Nintendo does.

xbox 360: the xbox was just a rehash of the original with better graphics,louder fans and crappier hardware. really making it a bland console and only having any kind of appeal because of its library

I'd say it appeals to quite a lot of people considering the sales numbers. It's also the go to console for SHMUPs even though it sells extremely poorly in Japan.

PS3: tried the same trick for the third time and failed miserably. sonys game plan was to release a system that offers new trendy technology that people would be pressed on buying.

Again, considering it's sales numbers and the fact it's outselling every other peice of hardware in Japan except the 3DS I really don't see how it failed. Yes it had a slow start (hmm, a bit like the 3DS) but it's been selling great since about 2008.

the companys have forgotten why people game and just want sell you on a hype
latest example THE GAMEBOY 3DS

The 3DS was extremely hyped, sold extremely poorly, and had the worst launch lineup in several console cycles. It was only when the price dropped, games were released by Nintendo, and when Christmas rolled around when it started selling well.

It's also not in the GameBoy line.

[Pulsar_t]

I believe the biggest hurdle to PC gaming is the prevalent sales of laptops, and their lack of video processing prowess. At this point in time tablet sales are almost on par with PC/laptop sales, but it's remarkable that the market has actually grown by 15% in 2011. [source].