Worst Break Up

[jfrost]

The point of sex is to reproduce.

Welcome to the 18th century, guys.

[brunoafh]

I meant from your body's point of view, not your mind's. I thought what I was getting at what obvious.

[TheyCallMeTheSwede]

I would not consider this a break up, more than just a dump. I was at a con in Boston and I was waiting for one girl that I had a crush on her, I realized I was waiting at the wrong hotel and I pretty much ran around town to find the right hotel, I made it to the right hotel, I was waiting in line so I could get a room since she actually gave me a room to stay in, I made it up to the counter and I said that I got a room reserved for "blah blah blah" and the lady on the counter said that I need to contact to the girl so I could get a room key, so I contacted her on the phone and would not pick up, the lady told me to move back in the line, and up to this point I was starting to get pissed off, so I walked away, place my arm on a wall away from everyone lobby and start banging my head on my arm, I felt a little better and move back in the line, and as I wait in line I slowly starting to get angry because I have not herd a word from her, until I saw her riding up an escalator with a group of her friends in cosplay, I shouted her name and wave my arms and told her that I needed her help, she told me she can't because shes in a photoshoot, and I pretty much lost it and shout "What The Fuck!!!!" it was so loud that it echoed across the halls and there was a mall built in the hotel and echoed there too, the security guard was like "hey, no more of that outburst", I apologized to the security guard and I said that I won't do it again. I pretty much tried go after her and apologized to her for that outburst, she handed me the room key so I could get my shit setup and at least give me a moment alone, after while I was thinking that its just not worth it in the end, I decided to stay and just get what I paid for and just never speak to her again. She came in the room along with her friends and immediate I decided to get this Giant Elephant out of the room and just make a big speech and apologize to everyone for making such a scene, luckly they all forgave me and started earn there trust so I guess no harm done, then I had a moment alone with "her" and I told her that she blew it, I told her that we can still be friends but I think it is best that I don't go any further, I going to milk this con for what its got and get out of there.

We are still friends though, but I think she is nothing but trouble
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FFrCZNNCeU

[crux]

It's pretty simple. When safety measures fail (whether it's a seat belt or a condom) it's OK to use medical science (whether it's blood transfusions or an abortion) to save the day.

The only real difference between the two is that when you have a sexual accident, you have no control over whether you get the help you need. It's entirely in someone elses hands, who may or may not have your best interests in heart. That's wrong.

You're still ignoring the principle argument, which is that it's safer not to drive. Also, if this is your argument (comparing a seat belt to a condom), then you're actually comparing sex not to driving, but you're comparing sex to getting in a car wreck, as the seatbelt only serves a purpose once the accident happens. Who on Earth would willingly get in a car accident? Furthermore, I cannot force the other driver or passenger to get a blood transfusion, can I?

General_Norris, a condom is not a contract and it's absurd of you to suggest such. It's most certainly not a waver that forces her to have an abortion. I'm with you on the fact that men and women do not have equal rights when it comes to reproduction. I agree that if a man can prove he was responsible, he should have no responsibilities should he decide not to have a child. Even that is an absurdly slippery slope, thanks to scum like rapists and molesters, but I nonetheless agree that under some circumstances a man should not be forced to take responsibility for a child. However, a man should never, ever be able to force a woman to do anything with her own body. Because that's exactly what abortion is. It's something that affects her body and her body alone. She is not a robber; She simply had a vastly different opinion than inazuma and you are demonizing her for that. What she did wasn't right (assuming she was going to force him to be a responsible father - did he ever discuss that before acting rashly?), but for god's sake, how do two wrongs make a right?

This is a complicated issue for a reason. If we ease up on the responsibilities of a father, it opens up a lot of grey area that scumbags that should be responsible will use to wriggle free of those responsibilities. inazuma's girlfriend should not have been able to force him to pay for her choice, but he too should not be able to force anything upon her as well. "Justice" is not a word for revenge; it's a word for fair and reasonable treatment. I simply have no idea how you can absolve inazuma from being the better person, and meanwhile villainize his ex-girlfriend as being scum of the Earth. I'm simply at a loss.

[Hatta]

If you don't like society's rules, then either work to change the rules or find another place to live. Those are the rules that we live by today.

Ah, the old "my way or the highway" gambit. Would you say the same to a homosexual in Britain 100 years ago? Or an interracial couple in Alabama 50 years ago?

If "it's the law, and the law is the law" is the best argument you have, then you have no argument at all. That is no argument against injustice, so by using it you must realize that your position is unjust. Not only that, but since you argue it's the prevailing societies view, you admit that society as a whole is unjust. You're basically aligning yourself with a modern day parallel to Jim Crow.

You might have the force of the law on your side, but you don't have justice. Which do you value more?

[alienjesus]

It's pretty simple. When safety measures fail (whether it's a seat belt or a condom) it's OK to use medical science (whether it's blood transfusions or an abortion) to save the day.

The only real difference between the two is that when you have a sexual accident, you have no control over whether you get the help you need. It's entirely in someone elses hands, who may or may not have your best interests in heart. That's wrong.

You're still ignoring the principle argument, which is that it's safer not to drive. Also, if this is your argument (comparing a seat belt to a condom), then you're actually comparing sex not to driving, but you're comparing sex to getting in a car wreck, as the seatbelt only serves a purpose once the accident happens. Who on Earth would willingly get in a car accident? Furthermore, I cannot force the other driver or passenger to get a blood transfusion, can I?

General_Norris, a condom is not a contract and it's absurd of you to suggest such. It's most certainly not a waver that forces her to have an abortion. I'm with you on the fact that men and women do not have equal rights when it comes to reproduction. I agree that if a man can prove he was responsible, he should have no responsibilities should he decide not to have a child. Even that is an absurdly slippery slope, thanks to scum like rapists and molesters, but I nonetheless agree that under some circumstances a man should not be forced to take responsibility for a child. However, a man should never, ever be able to force a woman to do anything with her own body. Because that's exactly what abortion is. It's something that affects her body and her body alone. She is not a robber; She simply had a vastly different opinion than inazuma and you are demonizing her for that. What she did wasn't right (assuming she was going to force him to be a responsible father - did he ever discuss that before acting rashly?), but for god's sake, how do two wrongs make a right?

This is a complicated issue for a reason. If we ease up on the responsibilities of a father, it opens up a lot of grey area that scumbags that should be responsible will use to wriggle free of those responsibilities. inazuma's girlfriend should not have been able to force him to pay for her choice, but he too should not be able to force anything upon her as well. "Justice" is not a word for revenge; it's a word for fair and reasonable treatment. I simply have no idea how you can absolve inazuma from being the better person, and meanwhile villainize his ex-girlfriend as being scum of the Earth. I'm simply at a loss.

I've been avoiding this conversation because frankly it seems to be bringing the worst out in people in this forum, but I had to chip in to say that I basically agree with this.

[Inazuma]

It's foolish for a man to have sex with a woman unless he is sterile. But it is also wrong for anyone to try to have a child with someone who does not also want a child. Both of us did things that were wrong.

The most important thing when it comes to any issue involving children, are the children themselves. I don't care what our fucked up laws say, you need to do what is best for children. It is horrible for a child to grow up without two loving parents. It is also horrible for a child to grow up in a very poor family. Having a child simply as a means to force the man to pay child support or stick around is selfish and completely unfair to the child.

The laws are completely in the mother's favor. The father and the child get the short end of the stick.

We really do need to change the laws. Not only to make it more fair for men but also for the children. However, until the laws actually do change, we need to understand them and make smart decisions. It really sucks but as responsible men, we have to go so far as to permanently sterilize ourselves in order to survive in this world.

[gtmtnbiker]

Ah, the old "my way or the highway" gambit. Would you say the same to a homosexual in Britain 100 years ago? Or an interracial couple in Alabama 50 years ago?

The three scenarios are not equivalent. A father who produced the child should not just skip out of town scot free. It's different from the two scenarios that you outlined because the father caused the situation he's in. An interracial couple have no ability to change the color of their skin. A homosexual has no ability to change the way his/her brain is programmed.

If "it's the law, and the law is the law" is the best argument you have, then you have no argument at all. That is no argument against injustice, so by using it you must realize that your position is unjust. Not only that, but since you argue it's the prevailing societies view, you admit that society as a whole is unjust. You're basically aligning yourself with a modern day parallel to Jim Crow.

You might have the force of the law on your side, but you don't have justice. Which do you value more?

The majority of society including myself feel that it's just for a father to have to pay for child support.

[gtmtnbiker]

It's foolish for a man to have sex with a woman unless he is sterile. But it is also wrong for anyone to try to have a child with someone who does not also want a child. Both of us did things that were wrong.

The most important thing when it comes to any issue involving children, are the children themselves. I don't care what our fucked up laws say, you need to do what is best for children. It is horrible for a child to grow up without two loving parents. It is also horrible for a child to grow up in a very poor family. Having a child simply as a means to force the man to pay child support or stick around is selfish and completely unfair to the child.

The laws are completely in the mother's favor. The father and the child get the short end of the stick.

So what sort of solution would you propose?

[Inazuma]

So what sort of solution would you propose?

Before actually having the baby, both people need to sign a contract and agree that they want to have a baby together, and they will do their best to raise it. After having the baby, if one of the parents changes their mind, they will be tracked down and forced to pay child support.

If this contract was not signed and a baby is created, the man cannot be held responsible at all.

Also, when a baby is born, the man will be required to take a DNA test in order to confirm that he is the real father. Only when it is certain that he is the real father, can his name be added to the birth certificate.

Because of these new laws, children will grow up with two biological parents who both wanted to have them. Men will no longer have their lives ruined by being unfairly forced to pay money to a bitch. Also, women will be unable to trick men into thinking a child is really their own.