The game that everyone hates you for hating...!

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MrEco
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Re: The game that everyone hates you for hating...!

Post by MrEco »

Mr.White555 wrote:I hate just about all RPG's. I liked the red and blue versions of pokemon and the super mario RPG's are good. Especially JRPG's, I NEVER found the need to play as some adolescent kid that looks like a girl trying to save the world from destruction. Funny since I loved the Fallout haha( YES I HAVE PLAYED THE FIRST AND SECOND BEFORE I PLAYED THE THIRD). Specifically RPGS: All zelda games, final fantasy, and so on. I really don't understand the appeal of the Zelda games.

WoW I hate that game with a passion too. The gameplay is so repetitive its mind numbing( and I am a fan of the dynasty warrior games!). I don't really like fantasy too. So maybe that would explain a lot.
Well the Zelda games aren't RPG's soooo... ya...

Anyways but on a completely (Un?)related note I never really got the appeal of the Zelda games either. Their fun for the first two or three hours for me but after that they start feeling a little repetitive. Not to mention that to me every Zelda game kinda feels like a graphically improved version of the last game in the series.
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MrEco
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Re: The game that everyone hates you for hating...!

Post by MrEco »

MrPopo wrote:
Mr.White555 wrote:Especially JRPG's, I NEVER found the need to play as some adolescent kid that looks like a girl trying to save the world from destruction.
Ok, this is a pet peeve of mine, but the whole "effeminant teenager" thing didn't really get started until FFX. All the SNES RPGs had normal characters and were some fantastic pieces of gameplay (in my opinion). And a decent number of PSX and PS2 RPGs also have regular protagonists, like Xenogears and Persona 4. The last couple of high-profile Square (and I specifically call out the Square half) games have had the effeminant protagonist that makes you question is sexuality, and that has been transferred onto all JRPGs. I have no problem if you don't like JRPGs; different strokes for different folks. But the "teenage guy who looks like a girl" thing is NOT a reason to write of the genre.
You made some very good point's there. Something that non-JRPG fans don't know(And honestly I don't expect them to) is that Square and Square-Enix were the first really successful game companies focused on making JRPG's(Well at least in America. I'm not 100% sure about Japan). Due to this, most of the time when a company makes a JRPG they tend to follow the style/design of the Square games(Ya know, follow the successful game company. A lot like how many FPS's are considered "Halo-clones"). Ending in a miniature flood of modern day JRPG's with effeminate male characters. Even then though, many JRPG's don't follow this pattern which is how you end up with great series like Shadow Hearts and the like. Even Square themselves don't always make main characters like that. Look at the older Final Fantasy protagonists like Squall Cloud and Vincent. Or the Kingdom Hearts series with characters such as Sora and Riku. Even the as-of-yet-unreleased Final Fantasy XIII has a non-gender confused protagonist. Sure it's a girl, but it's not a girl who looks like a guy. Or vice-verse.
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deathred
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Re: The game that everyone hates you for hating...!

Post by deathred »

To be completely honest, Halo 2 and 3, all Gears of War, all GTA games except 1, 2 and 4.

Halo was alright, multiplayer was the best part. However, it got really old really quickly. I'm really tired of killing the same aliens and doing the same thing over and over again.

Gears of Wars has such a great engine... but damnit they tried so hard to not make it into Halo... but it's really Halo with a 3rd person view. Seriously.

GTA 3 was alright when it came out, but really, it wasn't the greatest game ever. I only played it to drive around. I never got past working 2 jobs.
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Mr.White555
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Re: The game that everyone hates you for hating...!

Post by Mr.White555 »

MrPopo wrote:
Mr.White555 wrote:Especially JRPG's, I NEVER found the need to play as some adolescent kid that looks like a girl trying to save the world from destruction.
Ok, this is a pet peeve of mine, but the whole "effeminant teenager" thing didn't really get started until FFX. All the SNES RPGs had normal characters and were some fantastic pieces of gameplay (in my opinion). And a decent number of PSX and PS2 RPGs also have regular protagonists, like Xenogears and Persona 4. The last couple of high-profile Square (and I specifically call out the Square half) games have had the effeminant protagonist that makes you question is sexuality, and that has been transferred onto all JRPGs. I have no problem if you don't like JRPGs; different strokes for different folks. But the "teenage guy who looks like a girl" thing is NOT a reason to write of the genre.
Well its not so much the guys looking like girls or vise versa. I don't like the whole adolescent saving the world nonsence. I would like to see a battled hardened veteran save the world. O another reason I don't like RPG's is that I do not like the turn based system too much. but the whole character stats and such are cool but my main problem with the genre is its gameplay. They tell great stories, but I think they suffer from gameplay problems for the most part. This might have to do in part that I am a huge shooter/platformer fan... I still think there needs to be a proper fps/rpg game. Stalker had good gameplay but its rpg elements sucked and fallout 3 had sucky gameplay(V.A.T.S still rules though)
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Re: The game that everyone hates you for hating...!

Post by RemyC »

MrEco wrote:Not to mention that to me every Zelda game kinda feels like a graphically improved version of the last game in the series.
Besides some tweaks here and there, what else should a sequel be?
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Re: The game that everyone hates you for hating...!

Post by MrPopo »

Mr.White555 wrote:
MrPopo wrote:
Mr.White555 wrote:Especially JRPG's, I NEVER found the need to play as some adolescent kid that looks like a girl trying to save the world from destruction.
Ok, this is a pet peeve of mine, but the whole "effeminant teenager" thing didn't really get started until FFX. All the SNES RPGs had normal characters and were some fantastic pieces of gameplay (in my opinion). And a decent number of PSX and PS2 RPGs also have regular protagonists, like Xenogears and Persona 4. The last couple of high-profile Square (and I specifically call out the Square half) games have had the effeminant protagonist that makes you question is sexuality, and that has been transferred onto all JRPGs. I have no problem if you don't like JRPGs; different strokes for different folks. But the "teenage guy who looks like a girl" thing is NOT a reason to write of the genre.
Well its not so much the guys looking like girls or vise versa. I don't like the whole adolescent saving the world nonsence. I would like to see a battled hardened veteran save the world. O another reason I don't like RPG's is that I do not like the turn based system too much. but the whole character stats and such are cool but my main problem with the genre is its gameplay. They tell great stories, but I think they suffer from gameplay problems for the most part. This might have to do in part that I am a huge shooter/platformer fan... I still think there needs to be a proper fps/rpg game. Stalker had good gameplay but its rpg elements sucked and fallout 3 had sucky gameplay(V.A.T.S still rules though)
See, that's fine, in my book. If you don't like the gameplay then it makes sense that you wouldn't like the genre, as it's all about similar gameplay between titles, with slight quirks to the combat or stats system. I, on the other hand, enjoy that gameplay, as I like figuring out the precise way to mold a party to trounce everything in my path.

As for the adolescents saving the world, Orson Scott Card wrote a very interesting piece about that phenomenom in the preface to Speaker of the Dead. Paraphrasing it, if you look at a lot of fiction in general the heroes tend to be going through an adolescent phase of their life, even if they aren't technically adolescents. When you're an adolescent you've begun to break away from the dependence of your childhood; however, you have not yet accepted the responsibility of adulthood and the need to generate strong roots for stability. And look at the protagonists of fiction. Most of them are free to wander the earth, answerable to no one. The adolescent is also one who is going through a transition, and good fiction is about growth. The protagonists start off naive or as asses and end the story wiser and with resolve. They frequently have found someone to protect, which moves them fully from their childhood dependence and into the role of caregiver.

There are obviously going to be exceptions to this. But take a look through some of your favorite stories sometime. Luke Skywalker is a man without parents who leaves home to join the Rebellion in all his naivetivity, and ends the series as a much older and wiser person who has taken the safety of the galaxy into his own hands. Frodo is a young halfling who has the sudden responsibility of carrying the One Ring thrust upon him. At the beginning he is carefree and doesn't want to deal with it. As he journeys he begins to mature and voluntarily takes up the burden. And by the end he is so weighed down by the weight of his experiences that he's practically an old man.

You see the adolescent protagonist in video games because you see it in fiction. The difference is that in fiction you rarely have your face really rubbed in the fact that your protagonist is a 17 year old kid with a chip on his shoulder. The age can be quickly forgotton as long as it isn't either that of a child or that of a senior. In a video game, though, you have a constant visual reminder that your protagonist is a 17 year old punk with a stupid pair of lederhosen.
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Ack
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Re: The game that everyone hates you for hating...!

Post by Ack »

I would say that FF7 is really the first example of a feminine appearing villain, and while feminine looking heroes may not have appeared until X(though I argued Ramza from FFT was a girl for a long time...), feminine villains did populate a few Final Fantasies before that. Especially Kuja or whatever his name was in FFIX.
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Re: The game that everyone hates you for hating...!

Post by marurun »

FF8 seemed to be the turning point in FF character art becoming more androgynous, at least on the male side, IMO. The guys didn't look like girls yet, but that was the start of the slide in that direction. Although... I suppose you could argue that Yoshitaka Amano has never drawn a truly masculine character. Even the ones with facial hair have soft, svelte lines. True, it's just the style of his artwork, but I suppose there's something of a precedent there.
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Re: The game that everyone hates you for hating...!

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Mine is Golden Eye for N64
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Re: The game that everyone hates you for hating...!

Post by equalsign »

I hate every 2D Mario platformer. I detest them. I cannot even touch one for more than 5 minutes before I begin getting a headache from boredom. Super Mario Bros. for the NES was my first video game. I hated it then, and I hate it today. It's really weird, considering that I love most 2D platformers.
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