Kickstarter "Tropes vs Women in Videogames"

[Jmustang1968]

My biggest issue is that some of the sources she uses misrepresent the game involved. Or so cherry pick the offense out that it misses the context from which it occurred.

[Erik_Twice]

Like Mr Popo said, the fact that she's wrong, pretentious or unlikeable doesn't excuse (or otherwise diminish her harrasment). I do regret the polarization online harrasment has had on the discourse but it would be assinine to fault her for it.

That said:

The fact that you "don't have to" kill strippers in Hitman is no defense against the fact that you still can. If this kind of nonsense is included in a video game there's nothing wrong with critiquing it.

I don't see how it is any more "nonsense" than any other concept in games or art in general. Is Rommel in the Desert "nonsense" because you can play as the Nazis? Is Thief "nonsense" because it asks the player to commit virtual burglarly and slaughter agents of the law male and female? What about the possiblity of murdering heads of goverment in The Republic of Rome, indulging in corruption or seducing a senator? Are those "nonsense"?

[Exhuminator]

My biggest issue is that some of the sources she she uses misrepresent the game involved. Or so cherry pick the offense out that it misses the context from which it occurred.

Cherry picking misrepresentation out of context were the original problems I had with Anita's videos and why I did not take her seriously. I don't care that she's a woman, I do care if her research is presented in a false and biased fashion because it's critically misleading of the medium itself.

[dsheinem]

Why is everyone so concerned with context when the video series is specifically about tropes? It is about highlighting the things that recur in games, regardless of the various contexts of each occurrence.

[Erik_Twice]

Why is everyone so concerned with context when the video series is specifically about tropes? It is about highlighting the things that recur in games, regardless of the various contexts of each occurrence.

Because the moral or societal analysis of "tropes" is meaningless without their context.

Also, she does not ignore context. Very often she frames an act as harmful given the way it's contextualized, be it in the game, society or the medium.

[Jmustang1968]

Why is everyone so concerned with context when the video series is specifically about tropes? It is about highlighting the things that recur in games, regardless of the various contexts of each occurrence.

If that were only it then fine. But she is identifying tropes in a way to show or prove that games are misogynistic and harmful to women. So taking stuff out of context or not within the intent they exist in the game is being misleading.

The Hitman example is one I can use. Strip clubs are common locations associated with criminal activities and would be a logical locale for a criminal enterprise in a game. They are also commonly used as such in movies which I think Hitman takes queues from. So, naturally scantily clad women strippers exist in said strip clubs. The game gives you freedom of action to kill many of the NPCs and people in the game. So having the ability to kill them isnt an example of directed violence towards women or even encouraging such.

[dsheinem]

Why is everyone so concerned with context when the video series is specifically about tropes? It is about highlighting the things that recur in games, regardless of the various contexts of each occurrence.

Because the moral or societal analysis of "tropes" is meaningless without their context.

There's a long line of rhetorical critics and scholars dating back to Aristotle that would disagree with this. Understanding tropes/commonplaces and their power AS SUCH is quite useful, both for those who employ them and critique them.

Also, she does not ignore context. Very often she frames an act as harmful given the way it's contextualized, be it in the game, society or the medium.

Not sure what you mean. If she's looking at tropes that are themselves violent (or instances of harm being caused), then how would she talk about them as a trope without explaining that's what we're seeing? Sorry, I need some specifics here.

[dsheinem]

Why is everyone so concerned with context when the video series is specifically about tropes? It is about highlighting the things that recur in games, regardless of the various contexts of each occurrence.

If that were only it then fine. But she is identifying tropes in a way to show or prove that games are misogynistic and harmful to women. So taking stuff out of context or not within the intent they exist in the game is being misleading.

The Hitman example is one I can use. Strip clubs are common locations associated with criminal activities and would be a logical locale for a criminal enterprise in a game. They are also commonly used as such in movies which I think Hitman takes queues from. So, naturally scantily clad women strippers exist in said strip clubs. The game gives you freedom of action to kill many of the NPCs and people in the game. So having the ability to kill them isnt an example of directed violence towards women or even encouraging such.

Her criticism is not of a particular game (e.g. Hitman) but of video games writ large. It doesn't make sense to discuss the nuances of Hitman's setting if her point is to simply prove that "here are all these things that video games keep showing you about women".

[BoneSnapDeez]

Well the level is designed around a strip club. What the fuck where they supposed to put in there?

To go from "strip club setting" to "killing strippers" is still a colossal leap.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yaqWo7S8w8M/U ... ubex55.png

It's fair use to record video games as part of critique, as soon as you create that recording that is your copyrightable work. Somebody taking your work and then rehosting and profiting from it is shady at best, infringing at worst. She IS making money from this as the money that was generated from kickstarter was supposed to cover the cost of these materials. She isn't being honest with the way that she is generating this content so unless I see proof contrary she is making money from this. Not to mention using these videos as an academic work in lectures that she is being paid money to present.

The image you linked is a request from World of Longplays. It is not a statement of law or even YouTube's TOS. I do agree that she should give credit where credit is due, but nothing she has done falls under the umbrella of plagiarism.

She is censoring the people who complain about this under the guise of 'oppression' by disabling comments and refusing to acknowledge that she has plagiarised let's play videos for her footage. The most disgusting thing about this is that she initially pledged her kickstarter campaign as needing this money to buy these games. If she isn't playing these games and simply stealing other peoples videos without credit or recompense then what was all that money for?

Have you seen the type of comments she gets? Disabling her comments on YouTube is "censorship" in the same way that banning Russian spambots from this forum is "censorship" (i.e. it isn't).

How do you know she isn't playing games?

Whose money is she stealing? Did you pledge?

Like Mr Popo said, the fact that she's wrong, pretentious or unlikeable doesn't excuse (or otherwise diminish her harrasment). I do regret the polarization online harrasment has had on the discourse but it would be assinine to fault her for it.

That said:

The fact that you "don't have to" kill strippers in Hitman is no defense against the fact that you still can. If this kind of nonsense is included in a video game there's nothing wrong with critiquing it.

I don't see how it is any more "nonsense" than any other concept in games or art in general. Is Rommel in the Desert "nonsense" because you can play as the Nazis? Is Thief "nonsense" because it asks the player to commit virtual burglarly and slaughter agents of the law male and female? What about the possiblity of murdering heads of goverment in The Republic of Rome, indulging in corruption or seducing a senator? Are those "nonsense"?

I don't know what you mean by this.

I think Hitman is a garbage game rife with problematic elements.

Just because something is "art" doesn't mean it's above me calling it a steaming pile.

I can't speak to your other references because I have not played them.

[Exhuminator]

I will say, the fact that she raised $160K to make videos makes me want to consider if Kickstarter is a viable platform for funding future projects in cultural criticism I want a piece of that kind of cash pie

So start a Kickstarter to fund a Youtube show making fun of and logically debunking Anita Sarkeesian and her Feminist Frequency project. You will raise a hell of a lot more than $160K. Now I'm not saying you should do that, but if it's cash you're after...