World is Falling Apart Thread (Locked forever)

[Pulsar_t]

Catalonia and Venice are next on the secessionist list. Everyone with a village in Europe wants to declare his own country

[Sload Soap]

I'm going to declare myself the King Of Mercia and secede from the Union.

[ZeroAX]

@ZeroAX.

True, but the USA also has less to lose from the sanctions so they can afford to look more pro-active. Germany being worried about gas prices and Greece about tourism, especially in the state your economy is in, are legitimate concerns. There are also some ways in which EU and US law differ that make things difficult.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3dab6270-b41e ... z2x10UwtTx

I know going against Russia will hurt us too, but the thing is it will hurt us A LOT more in the long term if we don't push back. Think of how happy Chamberlain was when he avoided war with Hitler. Putin can't be trusted and the more we let Russia go wild, the more damage it will do to the European economy because of the instability it causes.

Also think of 2 good things that might come out of this:

1) Europe might get its shit together about an integrated pan-European common energy policy and agency as to push for European energy independence, which can provide much needed growth right now (let's be honest, the common agricultural policy is bullshit and the money is much better spent on filling Greece Italy and Spain with solar panels and building a grid to send it all up north) and lower energy prices in the future (super important for industrial powerhouses like Germany, and France who's aged nuclear reactors are becoming too expensive to maintain.

2) With economic sanctions obviously hurting Russia much more than us, and Russia already being an unstable dictatorship that scares investors away, it's much more likely investors will rush back to Europe, specially since they consider the Euro-crisis to have mostly passed, and periphery countries offering really large returns right now.


And another thing: it's cheaper to hurt a bit now but de-fang Putin (no amount of nationalistic propaganda can keep a dictator in power if the lives of the normal people keep getting worse, look at Egypt/Libya for examples of this) than risk facing his full force tomorrow at the battlefield if he goes too far.

What scares me most is that this is an empire in decline and it's much more likely its going to do something drastic (like Crimea) to try to hold on to any pretext of past glories.

I'm not afraid of China on the other hand cause it's on the rise, and the status quo suits it too well to risk hurting its growth by going to war for islands with Japan (for example).

EDIT

I know diplomacy is complex and all, but I just think a union of 28 nations should have more backbone than this.

[Sload Soap]

I agree on the with you on the energy plan. I think that renewable energy sources are not just the smart option but also a moral imperative. This is something Europe could lead the world on if we knocked our heads together.

Are you also saying though that you feel Russia is a direct military threat to other european nations? I don't think so, certainly not in the way the Nazi's were. Putin is not Hitler. The conditions that were created by the fall of Germany after the first world war were very unique.

These sanctions will hurt Russia more than europe in the long run anyway and it's their own daft fault.

[SirGawain]

@Pulsar_t

I look at people wanting to form their own country just like I do Texans wanting to reform the Republic of Texas. Why do that when you have the protection as membership of an established country? Just seems like a lot of people boasting about something that will never happen. Not to mention it is viewed as an act of war.

I think sanctions would probably bring Putin back down to earth a little bit, but he is bat-shit crazy to begin with. He might try something that would have huge reparations, but he definitely is not a Hitler. Many Germans were directly affected by the outcome of WWI, which led to them getting behind Hitler and joining the Nazi party. They were living in extreme poverty and saw Britain, France, and the USA as the reason. I really don't think the majority of the Russian population cares enough about past glories and the USSR to give up the imports from other countries.

[Jmustang1968]

No they saw the jews and money lenders as the reason.

The Texas secession stuff is mostly all talk as a form of political protest. In reality, while it would be rough from the get go, many of the larger states like Texas and California could function as its own country.

The logistics and how it would happen is the stumbling point. Even if the US agreed to let them go, splitting up who gets what would be near impossible. The US has too much invested in infrastructure and military installations. No way it could happen and not be very messy.

[SirGawain]

They had to borrowed money from where ever they could get it because they were forced to pay back a huge amount of money because of the war. This came from the Jews who owned the banks, but the Jews have been hated in European countries for hundreds of years.

And I wasn't saying Texas couldn't do it. Like you said, the logistics of it would be almost insurmountable. The US government has too much invested in every state for it to bee a seamless transition. It would take years to hammer out all the kinks when it comes to government roads and funded programs. Not to mention that the majority of steel used in building almost everything in Texas comes from Tuscaloosa, AL and Memphis, TN. Obviously it would be an export/import situations and be another logistical nightmare.

[Flake]

I'm not sure if Russia is the thing to worry about now. Comparing Putin to Hitler is hyperbole - Hitler got some traction by appealing to German nationalism because Germany was a real shit hole thanks to the sanctions placed on them by the British and French.

The Russians as an aggrieved people? Not so much. The country is not hungry for the type of war it would take to go after anything other than low hanging fruit like Crimea or Georgia just a few years ago. This is less about Putin going expansionist than it is about Putin needing to change the narrative after the Sochi Olympics and the insane amount of corruption that went into it.

Wag the dog.

[RCBH928]

Its very hard dealing with other nations that push you around . In the example with Putin, you can

1) Act like nothing happened and just complain by words which will make you gain nothing but you will continue to live hoping he doesn't continue his march

2) Take military action in which you might win or might lose, either way you will suffer a lot of pain not only of death but life quality will highly degrade. Loss of family, insufficient food, lack of medicine, no housing, looters, rapes, lost business... it continues

I wouldn't know what to do if I was a politician involved in this, I guess I will just have to go to war in the hope of not creating another Hitler. At least thats what I heard that Hitler continued to build power with other nations not paying attention until he became just too powerful and he did whatever he felt like causing WWII. Everyone lost in the end.

[Pulsar_t]

That Kardashian slut is about to recruit 20 million idiots into fighting the civil war in Syria. Why? Because suddenly she found out she's of Armenian origin or something. Bitch, spare a thought for the other 150'000 dead why don't you?