Kickstarter "Tropes vs Women in Videogames"

[Sload Soap]

There's something from the petition that struck me as telling. One of the points as to why the game should be taken off the shelves was this:

grooming yet another generation of boys to tolerate violence against women

Notice boys not men. I think games are still suffering from this perception of being for children by those who don't play them and so even an 18 rated game is still seen as a "boys toy".

This type of thinking reminds of the video nasty scare we had in Britain during the 80's, when a bunch of people who would never watch stuff like Evil Dead or I Spit on Your Grave to begin with managed to make sure no one got to see them based on their own egregious misconceptions about what those films were actually about.

The women who organised this petition might have the best intentions in the world but their goal is still the same as Mary Whitehouse and her ilk. Thankfully though they don't have MW's clout.

[ZeroAX]

And now k-mart pulled it too. I'm so happy that first world parents are too busy being selfish than taking the time to pay attention on raising their children. It's so good they can demand that society censors itself, instead of them losing custody of their children cause they don't give enough fucks to even check what their kids are playing with. Truly those 3rd world countries to whom family values means "the family actually spending time together" are so inferior to us first world modern people.

(Insert blue text with your imagination cause I'm using my phone to write this)

[alienjesus]

There's something from the petition that struck me as telling. One of the points as to why the game should be taken off the shelves was this:

grooming yet another generation of boys to tolerate violence against women

Notice boys not men. I think games are still suffering from this perception of being for children by those who don't play them and so even an 18 rated game is still seen as a "boys toy".

This type of thinking reminds of the video nasty scare we had in Britain during the 80's, when a bunch of people who would never watch stuff like Evil Dead or I Spit on Your Grave to begin with managed to make sure no one got to see them based on their own egregious misconceptions about what those films were actually about.

The women who organised this petition might have the best intentions in the world but their goal is still the same as Mary Whitehouse and her ilk. Thankfully though they don't have MW's clout.

But the fact remains that a lot of kids do play these games. I'm not saying the game should have been taken of shelves, but until video game age ratings are actually taken more seriously, this is something I can imagine will keep happening.

[Niode]

There's something from the petition that struck me as telling. One of the points as to why the game should be taken off the shelves was this:

grooming yet another generation of boys to tolerate violence against women

Notice boys not men. I think games are still suffering from this perception of being for children by those who don't play them and so even an 18 rated game is still seen as a "boys toy".

This type of thinking reminds of the video nasty scare we had in Britain during the 80's, when a bunch of people who would never watch stuff like Evil Dead or I Spit on Your Grave to begin with managed to make sure no one got to see them based on their own egregious misconceptions about what those films were actually about.

The women who organised this petition might have the best intentions in the world but their goal is still the same as Mary Whitehouse and her ilk. Thankfully though they don't have MW's clout.

But the fact remains that a lot of kids do play these games. I'm not saying the game should have been taken of shelves, but until video game age ratings are actually taken more seriously, this is something I can imagine will keep happening.

The truly sad thing is that kids play these games because they stamp their feet and the parents give in. The game stores are required to inform the parents that it is not suitable for children but they don't care. They will buy it anyway because little Timmy/Tina will be a complete evil bastard until they get their own way. So instead of parenting the child properly they will just give in. I wanted Mortal Kombat so much as a child but my mum wouldn't let me have it because she didn't think it was appropriate for me. Until she saw that the game wasn't as violent as it was being made out to be in the press she let me play it under her supervision, it's just exaggerated caricatures hitting each other, not realistic in the slightest. When the first GTA came out, I wanted that but my mum said no. Understandably, I was 11 or 12 at the time. She allowed me to rent it and play it under her supervision and realised that outside of running over pixelated cartoon men and some mild swearing the game wasn't that bad, she knew that I wasn't about to run outside and do these things in real life and the acts depicted (albeit presented crudely due to limitations) were no worse than films that I had already seen at that age. Some kids mature earlier than others and it's the parents job to deem what they feel suitable for their kids to consume. They have to put that effort in to make sure what their kids are doing is suitable for them. It seems that a lot of parents in my experience just don't care and are too selfish to invest that additional amount of time making sure something is suitable for their kids.

The main difference is that these games had very crude presentation and it was easy to see them as nothing but harmless games, albeit some had more mature themes than others such as GTA's depiction of New York Citys seedy underbelly. As video games have gotten more realistic I can see the argument that these depictions have more of a cerebral impact on a developing mind. However, just as Call of Duty doesn't make me a soldier, neither does GTA make a child a murderous psychopath. I don't think these things are appropriate to show to children but under the right parentage and guidance it could be enjoyed by a suitably mature child. I'd be a hypocrite if I said otherwise. Sadly I think parents that are willing to do that are very much in the minority and are much more likely to jump on ill sourced, factually incorrect bandwagons as this to get the product banned instead of exercising some form of restraint and showing their kids they aren't the centre of the universe and can't have everything they so wish, even if they really really want it with puppy dog eyes. Simply because it's easier to blame the entertainment industry because they're the bad guys. Sometimes parents have to be the bad guys instead.

[darsparx]

Honestly some key points I've kinda noticed and still kinda baffle me(even though I don't care either way sometimes because gta just doesn't catch my attention):

1.) Boys: I still have no clue why so many people see video games as boys toys when the median age for most gamers is 30(I'm 19 but whatever) and games like gta appeal(or are supposed to) only to the more mature crowd

2.) Entertainment: worn out excuse the whole mother groups like to wear out, again makes no sense why people still use it(seriously didn't we get enough of this between the 80's-early 00's? the fact it's still gotten away with is annoying)

3.) Parents as bad guys: maybe it's just me but it seems like after getting told no so many times(in times that even now don't make sense), that kids don't want to be like that to their kids so they try to be nicer even if it's at the cost of games like gta which aren't meant for them(they're meant for people 15+ since by 15 you've seen or heard of a lot of stuff that can be done in those types of games(that probably has been done in real life) or at least you could've if you haven't turned a blind eye to news all your life or even just eavesdropped on people on the bus to and from school )

The fact that a lot of parents are either that ignorant or just that willing to pass the blame is stupefying...seriously...

[Key-Glyph]

Is there a further link somewhere that specifically mentions mothers (and/or parents) as being heavily involved in this particular petition (i.e. more than just signature-signers)? Because the article provided here -- as well as the petition statement itself -- explicitly emphasizes that women survivors of sexual violence both started and took ownership of this campaign. No doubt at least one woman among them was a mother, but their vantage point as a group was very different and much more precise than just that, and was openly so. I just wanted to keep this point from being buried under a "clueless and/or hyper-emotional parents are ruining everything" narrative, because it makes the situation more nuanced.

And regardless, I agree with Bone. Wesfarmers made their decision as a private business. Not to mention that:

But, unlike The Warehouse, Target will continue to sell all other adult-rated DVDs and games - just not GTA5.

In essence this is a great bit of public relations for Wesfarmers -- and don't think they didn't realize this. Conveniently for them, the petition asked for just one product (which had been released seven months prior) to be taken off their shelves. In choosing to remove it they made the campaigners happy, they bolstered their wholesome image, and they at most caused a minor annoyance to the small fraction of their gamer audience that didn't already own the title. They weighed their courses of action and saw this for the excellent business move it was.

Also, is this getting major traction around the internet at this particular moment for some reason? According to the article, this happened back in March and April. Just curious.

[pepharytheworm]

Is there a further link somewhere that specifically mentions mothers (and/or parents) as being heavily involved in this particular petition (i.e. more than just signature-signers)? Because the article provided here -- as well as the petition statement itself -- explicitly emphasizes that women survivors of sexual violence both started and took ownership of this campaign. No doubt at least one woman among them was a mother, but their vantage point as a group was very different and much more precise than just that, and was openly so. I just wanted to keep this point from being buried under a "clueless and/or hyper-emotional parents are ruining everything" narrative, because it makes the situation more nuanced.

And regardless, I agree with Bone. Wesfarmers made their decision as a private business. Not to mention that:

But, unlike The Warehouse, Target will continue to sell all other adult-rated DVDs and games - just not GTA5.

In essence this is a great bit of public relations for Wesfarmers -- and don't think they didn't realize this. Conveniently for them, the petition asked for just one product (which had been released seven months prior) to be taken off their shelves. In choosing to remove it they made the campaigners happy, they bolstered their wholesome image, and they at most caused a minor annoyance to the small fraction of their gamer audience that didn't already own the title. They weighed their courses of action and saw this for the excellent business move it was.

Also, is this getting major traction around the internet at this particular moment for some reason? According to the article, this happened back in March and April. Just curious.

There is a counter petition that wanted to ban the bible too for the same reasons recently. That seems to be what brought all this more to the forefront.
https://www.change.org/p/target-withdra ... kill-women

[Niode]

Is there a further link somewhere that specifically mentions mothers (and/or parents) as being heavily involved in this particular petition (i.e. more than just signature-signers)? Because the article provided here -- as well as the petition statement itself -- explicitly emphasizes that women survivors of sexual violence both started and took ownership of this campaign. No doubt at least one woman among them was a mother, but their vantage point as a group was very different and much more precise than just that, and was openly so. I just wanted to keep this point from being buried under a "clueless and/or hyper-emotional parents are ruining everything" narrative, because it makes the situation more nuanced.

And regardless, I agree with Bone. Wesfarmers made their decision as a private business. Not to mention that:

But, unlike The Warehouse, Target will continue to sell all other adult-rated DVDs and games - just not GTA5.

In essence this is a great bit of public relations for Wesfarmers -- and don't think they didn't realize this. Conveniently for them, the petition asked for just one product (which had been released seven months prior) to be taken off their shelves. In choosing to remove it they made the campaigners happy, they bolstered their wholesome image, and they at most caused a minor annoyance to the small fraction of their gamer audience that didn't already own the title. They weighed their courses of action and saw this for the excellent business move it was.

Also, is this getting major traction around the internet at this particular moment for some reason? According to the article, this happened back in March and April. Just curious.

This is the problem. If this sort of thing sets a precedent then I can totally empathise with people getting upset over this. It stunts the expression that games have as a medium. People won't make Bafta award winning games like GTAV anymore because they run the risk of them not selling at all.

It's disgusting that an ill-thought out, ill sourced campaign can push an agenda and get literally thousands of idiots to sign a petition in favour of banning the sale of the game when the evidence presented is, for the most part, totally false.

[dsheinem]

People won't make Bafta award winning games like GTAV anymore because they run the risk of them not selling at all.

Oh come on, GTA V is the best-selling game ever in the UK. It has sold a shit-ton worldwide. I think that the runaway success of the game will have a lot to do with what people will make going forward than a few ridiculous policies that limit sales in some contexts.

I've never seen evidence of this "chilling effect" that games criticism or game laws have on game development.

[pepharytheworm]

People won't make Bafta award winning games like GTAV anymore because they run the risk of them not selling at all.

Oh come on, GTA V is the best-selling game ever in the UK. It has sold a shit-ton worldwide. I think that the runaway success of the game will have a lot to do with what people will make going forward than a few ridiculous policies that limit sales in some contexts.

I've never seen evidence of this "chilling effect" that games criticism or game laws have on game development.

I agree. Didn't San Andreas go through a lot of this too, being banned a lot of places, rating changed to AO and even being recalled. If GTA survived that this new incident seems minor.