The Wrestling Thread

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Raging Justice
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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The thing is, I'm find it harder and harder to CARE about the matches, and that makes the quality of them irrelevant. Yeah, I'm becoming THAT guy I guess. The grumpy internet person who is like, "I'm so sick of these neckbeards and their precious star ratings, why should I CARE about any of this"

I was waiting for Mercedes and Willow to just end because the outcome was so predictable and I wanted to see if anything noteworthy would happen afterward. Instead, we got a heel turn from someone who hasn't done anything interesting in ages so why should anyone care? Statlander and Stokely have been made to look like buffoons for months now. Statlander has been on the roster long enough now that I feel like if there was truly anything special about her we'd have seen by now. She's a dud. Some of the match was sloppy. Some of the lucha stuff from Mercedes looked terrible. Like she did a hurricanrana on Willow and it was so botched that Willow had to noticeably create her own momentum and practically throw herself into the turnbuckle. Also, Mercedes went up on the turnbuckle for a move at one point and Willow was just standing there for what felt like ages staring at her instead of actually like, I don't know, STOPPING HER FROM DOING THE MOVE. It looked so stupid, she was there in the corner just watching Mercedes SLOWLY make her way up to the top of the turnbuckle right in front of her goddamn face.

Like it's hard sometimes to ignore how overly choreographed some stuff is. It's a complaint many people have about modern wrestling and sometimes even I notice it. The match did get good over time though, and I'll take anything over a stupid title match involving a shitty, comedy character like Toni Storm. I also noticed some sloppiness in the FTW match. Shibata and Hook took waaaaaaay too long setting up that turnbuckle spot when Jericho was on the table. Shibata looked nervous, then when he did the spot the table didn't break and Jericho just rolled off of it. I think Shibata overshot the table so when him and Hook landed on Jericho, the table didn't break. I think I already mentioned the botch during Ospreay's match, when that guy jumped over the rope to hit Ospreay, who was on the other dude's shoulders (I can't remember the names of those two Undisputed losers right now). His foot got caught on the rope and he barely touched Ospreay, but they still had to sell it as a big spot where Ospreay got really hurt and commentary had to act like that spot went off perfectly. They even kept replaying it. WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU KEEP REPLAYING A BOTCH!?!?!

Mox/Takeshita was boring like all Mox matches are these days. I DON'T FUCKING CARE ABOUT JON MOXLEY. Yes, he's an icon in AEW. Yes, he's a guy you can rely on when the company is going through hard times, but WHEN IS THE LAST TIME HE HAS DONE ANYTHING FUCKING INTERESTING?

Also, AEW PAY PER VIEWS ARE TOO FUCKING LONG. This does hurt my interest because I start to feel exhausted watching them. I think somewhere around the Edge/Malakai match (yeah, the way Edge came down off of the cage was a bit weird though I feared for his life that he was even attempting this) or Mox vs Takeshita I was starting to feel sleepy. Also, when you have too many matches on a pay per view, it makes all of them feel less special. It just feels like, here's yet another match. They could have easily dropped some matches off of the card like Trent vs. Cassidy, Takeshita vs Mox, or even the trios match with Death Triangle vs. Bullet Club Gold. Those should have been TV matches. This card should have been Anarchy in the Arena, Mercedes vs. Willow, Ospreay vs. Roderick, Copeland vs Malakai, Swerve vs Christian and THAT'S IT. I guess you could add Deeb vs Storm, but who really gives a fuck about that match? It sure as hell didn't FEEL like a major title defense. I was struggling to even REMEMBER all of the matches as I typed this post. WE DON'T NEED TEN MATCHES ON A PAY PER VIEW. Marigold's debut show had six, and honestly I'm comfortable with a PPV having 5 matches maximum with angles, surprises, promos, etc. filling out the rest of the time. This show felt fat and bloated. I want something lean and mean. The same way I'd rather play an eight hour masterpiece of a game than a forty plus hour snooze fest (which is what most sandbox, open world games are, a snooze fest). Don't get me wrong, some of those matches I'd take off of the show were good, but it's just too much for one show. I loved Trent/Cassidy, BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY HAS AN INTERESTING STORY. That said though, it's not pay per view worthy.

I haven't watched Swerve vs Christian or Anarchy in the Arena cause I suspected nothing interesting would happen. I'll watch them later. The best thing I saw on that entire goddamn show was that fucking MJF promo. God, maybe he can inject some life into this company that feels like it's on life support. His promo was RAW and HONEST and BRUTAL. It had ATTITUDE and I love that he didn't lean too hard into face OR heel territory. This was just MJF, unfiltered, take it or leave it. I also love that he told the world in no uncertain terms that he's the best whether you like it or not no matter who your favorites are :lol: . Everybody SAYS they are the best, but MJF makes you BELIEVE it. I also like how he took shots at internet marks on all sides from NJPW fans to WWE fans to idiots who follow dirtsheet gossip too closely. "if it isn't obvious by now you stupid marks, I'm staying in AEW"

MJF has that kind of energy, presence, and promo ability that reminds me of LA Knight, except more raw and unfiltered and edgy. It's what made us love people back in the Attitude Era. That vibe. That attitude. That cocky swagger and machismo. It's what The Rock brought to that lame as fuck Wrestlemania build. The Rock is the one who made it interesting because Seth and Cody are too bland and boring to do it themselves and Roman barely even cares as he enjoys wrestling like twice a year, showing up for two or three shows, and sitting on his ass at home for the rest of the time. At least Roman has some charisma though, unlike dweebs like Cody. MJF looked fucking awesome. I hope he keeps this more raw looking ring attire and drops the fancy scarf and all of that stuff. You know what the absolute best part about MJF being back is? I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT AEW IS GOING TO DO WITH HIM. Unlike all of the other predictable shit going on in AEW and WWE right now

I'm probably being overly harsh. In fact, I'm almost positive that I am, but I just wish AEW could feel exciting again and i wish that WWE could be the awesome company it was back in the 80s and 90s. Sigh.

EDIT: On my point about modern wrestling being overly choreographed, this is one of the reasons I fucking hate Dante Martin. He does that stupid spot in all of his matches where he CLEARLY PUTS HIS FOOT ON THE ROPE, then he looks back at his opponent, and then they run towards him like idiots and he predictably flips over them. It looks so fake and stupid and wrestlers should know by now that he's going to do it. HE FUCKING TELEGRAPHS THE GODDAMN MOVE EVERY FUCKING TIME HE DOES IT.
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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MJF being back is definitely the best thing about the show and AEW in general. He is so goddamn good!

Don't get me wrong, I agree AEW is boring right now and the show did nothing to change that. Moxley IS boring as fuck. I have had the same complaint for a while. His character is stale and he has not had a single interesting angle, story or feud in ages. Jericho just goes without saying.

I also agree the shows are too long. That goes for all wrestling promotions, well WWE and AEW at least. But Double or Nothing had no reason to be 4.5 hours. The card should have been:

1. AEW International Title Match
Will Ospreay vs Roderick Strong

2. AEW World Trios Title / ROH World Six Man Tag Team Title Match
Death Triangle (PAC, Penta El Zero Miedo & Rey Fenix) (w/Alex Abrahantes) vs Bang Bang Gang (Austin Gunn, Colten Gunn & Jay White)

3. AEW Women's World Title Match
Serena Deeb vs Toni Storm Serena Deeb

4. AEW TNT Title Barbed Wire Steel Cage Match
Malakai Black vs Adam Copeland Malakai Black

5. AEW TBS Title Match
Mercedes Mone vs Willow Nightingale

6. AEW World Title Match
Christian Cage vs Swerve Strickland

7. Anarchy In The Arena Match
The Elite (Jack Perry, Kazuchika Okada, Matthew Jackson & Nicholas Jackson) vs FTR (Cash Wheeler & Dax Harwood), Bryan Danielson & Darby Allin
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Raging Justice
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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I think the whole pay per view model that AEW and WWE use is flawed too. I sit there watching Double or Nothing and I think, "What makes this any different from watching a free TV show?".

Do the champions only defend their titles on pay per views? No

Do stipulation matches like cage matches and no DQ matches only happen on pay per view? No

Do we only see blood on pay per views? No

Do debuts and returns only happen on pay per views? No

Do we only get to hear Hall of Fame commentators like Jim Ross on pay per view? No

Do they do crazy stuff like Jack Perry being on fire or Darby Allin falling through a plate of glass only on pay per view? Arguable. We had Cody Rhodes set himself on fire on free TV once. Maybe I'll give AEW this last one, but my above points are still valid.

So again, I ask, what the hell makes pay per views special?

Sometimes I think Black and Gold NXT had the best model. I didn't watch all of it as I was really into Lucha Underground at the time, but of the episodes I have seen I have noticed a few things. You would get short, breezy weekly shows that consisted of little more than glorified squash matches to get over your talent, along with doing whatever you had to do to push your story lines and angles forward. The good shit only happened on the Takeover shows. That's when you got title matches, stipulation matches, big debuts (like Asuka), etc. That's when you'd see Triple H or Stephanie introducing the show. That's when everything felt like a big deal. If anything, the weekly shows were "story" shows and the Takeover events were "wrestling" shows.

AEW and WWE give away way too much on free TV these days, so it's harder for pay per views to feel special without really, really good build ups to generate hype. The work rate in AEW is also arguably too high. You can get pay per view caliber matches on a weekly basis so it takes a lot for those pay per view matches to really impress you. I think it might benefit the product if more effort was spent on pushing the story and characters week to week and having those banger 4-5 stars matches on pay per views only. Will Ospreay shouldn't be putting on bangers on free TV like that match he once had with Kyle Fletcher. Unless, it's a special episode like an anniversary show, or their first time in a certain arena or city. You can make exceptions for stuff like that. Like Grand Slam for example or the episode they did on the Jericho cruise show. You can break up this model from time to time and have special matches on free TV, but it shouldn't be the norm

Pro wrestling right now has fundamental problems that are at its very core. The people in power need to fundamentally rethink how they present pre wrestling...but it's not going to happen unless some maverick breaks into the industry in a big way like Freddie Prince Jr. (who recently said he wants his wrestling promotion to be like Lucha Underground)

I also think our culture in general is very gluttonous right now. There's too much of everything. Video games are too long and too big and sometimes too complicated. Wrestling gives us too much week to week and then tries to make up for it with pay per views that are waaaayyyy too long.
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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Raging Justice wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 9:53 am AEW and WWE give away way too much on free TV these days, so it's harder for pay per views to feel special without really, really good build ups to generate hype.
This right here is the issue.

Also, more specifically with AEW, EVERY Anarchy in the Arena match seems to just a set up for Blood and Guts later in the year, which means you know the heels are winning. It's predictable.

I forgot to say too, Mone won the title and the crowd went MILD! Willow is crazy over. They should have had her win. I am deadly serious. Mone could overcome the loss. She could even sell her ring rust/prior injury a bit. They could build Mercedes up more in some other matches and feuds, and have a rematch with Willow later on, so she is given a win over her.
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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Reprise wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 10:16 am
Raging Justice wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 9:53 am AEW and WWE give away way too much on free TV these days, so it's harder for pay per views to feel special without really, really good build ups to generate hype.
This right here is the issue.

Also, more specifically with AEW, EVERY Anarchy in the Arena match seems to just a set up for Blood and Guts later in the year, which means you know the heels are winning. It's predictable.

I forgot to say too, Mone won the title and the crowd went MILD! Willow is crazy over. They should have had her win. I am deadly serious. Mone could overcome the loss. She could even sell her ring rust/prior injury a bit. They could build Mercedes up more in some other matches and feuds, and have a rematch with Willow later on, so she is given a win over her.
You're not crazy. I've said for a while now that Willow has been a great champ and I noticed how over she was with that crowd. I've also considered the idea of them having her win here. There was a lot of gas in the tank for her title run, and they prematurely aborted it for what looks like a shitty Kris Statlander feud.

I was reading how people in Stardom didn't know who she was during her match with Tam. This was a big fail on the part of both AEW and Stardom. That match should have been a bigger deal. It's been sort of vaguely mentioned on TV since them by Willow and by the guys on commentary, and people at home must be thinking, "What the hell are they talking about?" since AEW never promoted it at all.
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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Why is it that I can't find the Reebok commercials anywhere on youtube? Why don't I see them on TV? Does this company know how to promote ANYTHING? I went to the site where you can buy them and I don't know if it's just my browser but their website is a fucking mess

AEW frustrates me so much. They can't do ANYTHING right.
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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Yeah.

I love how good MJF is though. Apparently he has been wearing a brace recently to throw people off the scent of how close he is to a return. He/AEW managed to keep his return under wraps as well, other than a really late spotting not far from Vegas at the 11th hour before the show started.
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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Reprise wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 2:27 pm Yeah.

I love how good MJF is though. Apparently he has been wearing a brace recently to throw people off the scent of how close he is to a return. He/AEW managed to keep his return under wraps as well, other than a really late spotting not far from Vegas at the 11th hour before the show started.
I haven't watched the last two matches, but I'm re-watching the rest of the show and on a second viewing I really, really like the Malakai Black/Adam Copeland match. The entrance music for Edge was really cool too. I'm still really high on that great promo he did on Collision.
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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Okay, I just finished the Anarchy in the Arena match and it was fucking awesome. That was the REAL main event! We had two attempted homicides and I actually did get a "Hangman" appearance :lol:
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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Raging Justice wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 5:13 pm I haven't watched the last two matches, but I'm re-watching the rest of the show and on a second viewing I really, really like the Malakai Black/Adam Copeland match. The entrance music for Edge was really cool too. I'm still really high on that great promo he did on Collision.
I rewatched all the 'good' matches from the show this evening, skipping all the more average stuff. Yeah, the Malakai and Copeland match was so much fun. I am a sucker for that kind of silliness when it just clicks with me and it's two wrestlers as compelling, charismatic and good as Malakai and Copeland are.
Raging Justice wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 6:06 pm Okay, I just finished the Anarchy in the Arena match and it was fucking awesome. That was the REAL main event! We had two attempted homicides and I actually did get a "Hangman" appearance :lol:
Yeah, it was good fun. They literally threw fucking everything at this match :lol:

And Jack Perry did get set on fire! :lol:

It was much better than the one they had at All In last year. Not sure if it was as good as the first two they had at Double or Nothing 2022 and 2023 or not, as I can't even remember them, but this was just silly fun.
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