The Wrestling Thread

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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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I like how AEW has started doing these promotional graphics. I am not sure if they are new or they recently improved and I am only just noticing them, but they help make their stars and their upcoming matches feel like a big deal.
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The company is in such a weird place, because the last year has felt like they keep taking one step forward and two steps back. I keep finding myself thinking "hey, I like what they're doing now with this..." or "hey, they have really improved this aspect of their...", but I also keep finding myself criticising aspects or jusf in general getting bored (I haven't even watched the last 2 weeks or so of AEW television for example).

They just put on two fantastic PPVs back to back and the television show seemed to be improving, but then they are now back in a bit of slump.

Double or Nothing also isn't really exciting me all that much. There have been PPVs like that before (basically all of their PPVs last year, bar All In [and I even criticised the build for that one] and Revolution) and then a lot of the time they turn out to be great. I am not sure Double or Nothing will be like that though.

I am not expecting any shocking returns or debuts, much in the way of story progression, any unexpected match results or for many "banger 5 star classic" matches. I also think this PPV will have another drop in buys, that will continue the "AEW is dying" narrative.

Here's a question though? Is unpredictability always good? Or does that also piss off fans? Are fans entitled or too impatient to sit through it now? Maybe they would be right to call out "bullshit".

I was thinking how during the Attitude Era, WWE basically tore up all the rules (WCW did too). I was also thinking how traditionally wrestling companies use the weekly television shows to promote their next PPV. But in the Attitude Era, WWE always used the PPVs to promote the next episode of Raw (in addition to using the tv shows to promote the PPVs).

This meant putting a bunch of cliffhangers in PPVs, doing a bunch of crazy swerves and and doing insane things. Like, do you remember Kane won the world title? Then he dropped it the next night on Raw. Their shows were always unpredictable and on paper, you could argue that much of it made no sense or was rubbish, but yet it was loved and everyone watched it. I remember the crazy face and heel turns too, like when DX were feuding with the Corporation leading into Wrestlemania 15. Chyna left and joined with the Corporation. Triple H and X Pac and probably the New Age Outlaws were on side DX and a big part of the feud was between Triple H and Kane I think, with Chyna partnering/managing Kane. Then at the PPV, Chyna turned on Kane and reuinted with Triple H and you were made to think it was a face turn and she was joining DX again. But then later in the night Triple H turned on DX and Chyna helped him, revealing that actually she hadn't turned face, HHH had turned heel and was joining her in the Corporation. Kane had been kicked out of the Corporation and I think that led to him having a face run with X-Pac, only for X-Pac to also later turn heel.

There's a fine line between unpredictability and just flat out randomness that turns off viewers.

Could AEW have Mone lose her debut match and still protect her and keep her character interesting?

What about Christian? He could win the world title, maybe even have some shenanigans involving his faction members (WWE loves to do that shit, don't they), and have Swerve win it back on Dynamite in a week or two after the PPV.

Maybe at some point, 'Killswitch' can turn on Christian and rejoin with Jack Perry and The Elite. I don't know.

AEW could also have missing individuals return, if cleared and have them make a "shocking statement" by unexpectedly interfering in matches.

Off topic, as a sidenote, I also really like the idea of Samoa Joe mentoring Hook, Raging Justice.
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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Reprise wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 4:50 am
I was thinking how during the Attitude Era, WWE basically tore up all the rules (WCW did too).
Don't forget ECW. This was true of WWF in the 80s as well when they started inter promoting wrestling with MTV and pop culture stars. The Rock 'n' Wrestling connection.

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People complain about celebrity use in wrestling these days, but back then It generated excitement, made Wrestlemania successful and led to WWF becoming mainstream. Wrestling is always hot when they break the rules. Vince broke all the rules when abandoning the territory system, pissing off a lot of people in the process, including his father I think. AEW's very existence broke the rules and it helped get them successful because there was a lot of interest in what they were doing. It's been like 5 years now though and we are now used to there being two big wrestling companies again. So now it's like, well what else can AEW do to generate buzz?

I think they need to start thinking outside the box and taking some risks, like ECW and Lucha Underground did. Matt Hardy was the hottest thing in wrestling for a year with his Broken gimmick in TNA, because it was different. He tried something different, took a risk, and it paid off. Wrestling has been around a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong fucking time (before both of us were even born). People get tired of the same shit all the time
Reprise wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 4:50 am This meant putting a bunch of cliffhangers in PPVs, doing a bunch of crazy swerves and and doing insane things. Like, do you remember Kane won the world title? Then he dropped it the next night on Raw. Their shows were always unpredictable and on paper, you could argue that much of it made no sense or was rubbish, but yet it was loved and everyone watched it. I remember the crazy face and heel turns too, like when DX were feuding with the Corporation leading into Wrestlemania 15. Chyna left and joined with the Corporation. Triple H and X Pac and probably the New Age Outlaws were on side DX and a big part of the feud was between Triple H and Kane I think, with Chyna partnering/managing Kane. Then at the PPV, Chyna turned on Kane and reuinted with Triple H and you were made to think it was a face turn and she was joining DX again. But then later in the night Triple H turned on DX and Chyna helped him, revealing that actually she hadn't turned face, HHH had turned heel and was joining her in the Corporation. Kane had been kicked out of the Corporation and I think that led to him having a face run with X-Pac, only for X-Pac to also later turn heel.
And all of that was fun, because you had to tune in to see what happens next. When I remember my favorite times as a wrestling fan, it was also when I couldn't wait for the next show to see what happens next. I don't feel like that now. I have no enthusiasm for any upcoming Raw or Smackdown and just a mild interest in every new AEW show. I mentioned before how Lucha Underground did some dumb things during its run, but at least it was unpredictable and not boring. One thing Lucha Underground frequently did was have match upsets with winners that you didn't expect. I liked that. It was never written in stone who was going to win a match. They also fucking KILLED people on that show :lol: You know how many times wrestlers make threats about killing people but then just pin them in a match and act like they did what they said they were going to do? Not in Lucha Underground. Threats were real. Even casket matches were not a joke in Lucha Underground like they typically are in wrestling where you "bury" a guy and he just comes back a few months later. In Lucha Underground you could get away with that because they had supernatural characters. Fenix literally couldn't die, hence his name, and Mil Muertes was the embodiment of death so of course he couldn't die. What I liked was how Mil Muertes would get more powerful every time he returned from death, so killing him would bite you in the ass later. Also Fenix had an unknown limit to his resurrections like a video game character so they would often bring up how many lives he had left on the show. Like that was an actual story element, so if Mil Muertes killed him it was like, will he actually come back this time? I swear, no one would know who Fenix or Pentagon were today were it not for how awesome they were in Lucha Underground. That show launched some careers (did you know that Sammy Guevara was in Lucha Underground as well?)

Anyway, got off on a tangent there. My biggest issue with both Tony Kahn and Triple H right now is that they both have no balls. They play it safe ALL THE FUCKING TIME and it's made both products boring as fuck. Every time there is a chance for them to take a left turn, or try something different, or surprise everyone, they pass on it. EVERY...FUCKING...TIME

Push LA Knight. Nope

Have Mercedes show up in Stardom. Nope

Have Priest cash in on Cody. Nope

Do something exciting with the Mercedes debut instead of the typical she comes out to the ring and plays to the crowd. Nope

Have an AEW wrestler lose a title when defending it in another promotion. Nope

Have Dakota Kai ACTUALLY FUCKING WIN A MATCH. Nope

Have Bianca Belair ACTUALLY FUCKING LOSE A MATCH. Nope

I feel like Tony and Hunter have no passion for this. When you are passionate about something, you want to see how far you can push it, you want to surprise and excite people with it, you are full of incredible ideas for it that you want to try, all of the best shows and movies show these qualities. You can feel the passion of the creators and the joy they get from delighting and surprising fans. I don't feel ANY of that AT ALL in WWE or AEW right now. I feel like Tony and Triple H just don't care and are happy to just keep coasting and do the bare minimum amount of work with the bare minimum amount of effort in pushing their product. Sigh. It's fucking sad. You will never see more incredible talent in those two promotions than right now and they are doing NOTHING with them.
Reprise wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 4:50 am I like how AEW has started doing these promotional graphics. I am not sure if they are new or they recently improved and I am only just noticing them, but they help make their stars and their upcoming matches feel like a big deal.
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Marigold is doing some cool stuff too

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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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Stardom doesn't feel too great right now with the whole restructuring and resetting of every thing. NJPW isn't exactly blowing people away with Mox feuding with Evil over the title, and they've suffered a bit from losing Okada. AEW is getting shit on from all sides, and WWE is in a post mania slump

Yeah, wrestling officially sucks right now. Like there's literally nothing interesting going on anywhere, and now I'm hearing that Marigold is losing Giulia due to injury

Ugh. Maybe it's time to start watching TNA. Nobody's actually bitching about them right now. TNA never generates any buzz, but you also never hear fans complaining about the product. There's something to be said for that.

I guess there's also MLW and NWA out there as well. Everybody always forgets about them. MLW pisses me off because seeing Cesar Duran on the show just keeps reminding me that Lucha Underground is dead. I'm a bit pissed that the show Penta and Fenix were going to do got a change of venue. It WON'T be at the Lucha Underground temple. Sigh. It's like nothing in pro wrestling is going well right now

I think it's time to start watching more streaming shows and movies until wrestling gets out of the slump that it's in
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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Eddie Kingston: “Sometimes I break down because sometimes I feel like I don't deserve it. That's one of my curses that I have. It's such a weird thing that it's actually happening. Before AEW, I was selling my wrestling stuff to be able to pay my mortgage."

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/ ... n_because/

But that's the thing Eddie, you DON'T deserve it. Everyone thinks the world owes them everything because they have a sob story :roll:

A lot of people have had to sell stuff to pay bills or mortgage, you're not special.

People today:

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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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Kingston is basically a charity case. He got to where he is because people feel sorry for him, not because he deserves to be there.
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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https://www.f4wonline.com/news/aew/jim- ... new-stars/

Jim Ross - "AEW’s challenge right now, to me, is creating new stars. Somebody on that brand has got to get hot. That’s got to be, I think, what they need now. Somebody’s gotta get hot.”

I agree

Looks like Meltzer gave Bryan/Ospreay 6 and 1/2 stars. His ratings are so stupid now. Bryan/Ospreay should be no higher than 5 stars. HOWEVER, he can certainly go on record as saying it's one of the best 5 star matches he's ever seen.

Here's the thing. You can give me a list of movies that are classics...masterpieces, even. Each of those movies would be five stars. However, 1 or 2 of them is going to resonate with me more. A six or seven star match is really just a five star match that Meltzer really, REALLY, liked. That's all he has to say. He can have like a top five list of five star matches and put Ospreay/Bryan and Omega/Okada on it, instead of this six star, seven star, nonsense that is so dumb that even Kenny Omega has made fun on him. Man, Kenny must be bored these days because he's opened up about a LOT of shit on his gaming streams :lol:

Soon he'll be discussing the meaning of life while busting out a combo in Street Fighter :lol:

Back to the rating thing, I think movies like Batman: Mask of the Phantasm are classics. They are 5 star movies. However, there are movies that I love more. I wouldn't say that those movies are six or seven star movies just because I love them more, they are just classics that are personal favorites of mine that I can rewatch over and over again. I won't say Evil Dead II is 8 stars or some absurd number, but there are movies that I regard very highly that I haven't watched as many times as I've watched Evil Dead II. Something about it just keeps bringing me back. I've seen some of the best anime series out there, but few do I love as much as Cowboy Bebop. A thing can be a masterpiece and yet still be outshined by other masterpieces. There needs to be an end point with a ratings system otherwise it becomes absurd. What next? A 20 star match? I think this is why some people use 1-10 scale ratings for things and never go above a 9.5. They are waiting for that absolutely mind blowing thing that makes then go TEN!!! While technically a 9.5 indicates that something is wrong with something, you know that if someone who never gives 10s gives something a 9.5 that it's something special that will be talked about come end of the year awards time and possibly for many years afterwards. If that person ever DOES give something a 10, you know it's one of those once in a lifetime things that is of a level of quality that is extremely rare. More than a masterpiece, more than a classic, but a defining, groundbreaking thing that changes the game...like the first Star Wars movie or The Matrix.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/ ... at_for_me/

Matthew Jackson: "It was personally great for me, because I had fantasized many times about dropping Tony Khan on his head ever since I met him. I can remember many times watching him talk during production meetings, and my mind would wander to beating the hell out of him..."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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The thing is, Dave claims his star ratings aren't actually out of 5, but he won't tell anyone what they actually are out of. It's obvious though he's bullshitting his way through this and making it up as he goes along :lol:

It is silly. Just stick to 5 stars ffs.

Tonight I am watching Wrestle Kingdom 9. The crowd is so quiet (at least so far). Is that a Japanese thing? lol. It's weird, for half a second I thought I was watching a pandemic era show :lol: I have seen WK9 before, but it's been a while.

Edit: Never mind, the crowd just woke up after a beautiful DDT (and then went back to sleep) :lol:
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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Reprise wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 4:27 pm The thing is, Dave claims his star ratings aren't actually out of 5, but he won't tell anyone what they actually are out of. It's obvious though he's bullshitting his way through this and making it up as he goes along :lol:

It is silly. Just stick to 5 stars ffs.

Tonight I am watching Wrestle Kingdom 9. The crowd is so quiet (at least so far). Is that a Japanese thing? lol. It's weird, for half a second I thought I was watching a pandemic era show :lol: I have seen WK9 before, but it's been a while.
Years ago people used to say that Japanese crowds are quiet by nature because they are so focused on everything happening during a match. I don't know if that's true. However, in the waning months of the pandemic Japanese crowds were quiet because of rules preventing them from opening their mouths and removing their masks. Interestingly, I noticed them doing other types of stuff to make noise like stamping their feet.

Nowadays I do hear Japanese crowds being pretty vocal. It blew my mind watching a recent match, I think it was Bryan vs. Zack Sabre Jr., where they were doing the same chants and stuff that we do like, "this is awesome". They even did Bryan's Yes chant. Maki Itoh usually gets crowds pretty vocal during her matches in Japan and I hear crowds laugh a lot during DDT shows, or Stardom shows when the girls start doing silly things. Some time last year I think, Natsupoi lost her voice and the crowds seemed to get a kick out of her shouting during her matches with no actual sound coming from her mouth :lol:
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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Jesus, I don't know what the hell I just watched.

Tony Kahn drove Darby Allin and his skateboard to the arena like a schoolboy...then fist bumped him

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and Darby had a flamethrower for some reason:

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They ran this stupid angle where Darby was barred from the building, but they couldn't do it in a cool way like when Austin used to get taken away by cops in the good old days

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I felt like I was watching a cartoon.

Satnam Singh vs. Bryan Danielson was a clusterfuck. The announce table basically went:

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Do you have to protect EVERYONE Bryan? It's Satnam Singh, JUST KICK HIS FUCKING HEAD IN AND PIN HIS FUCKING ASS.

Toni Storm was...Toni Storm

Learning Tree Jericho sucks

Takeshita wrestled Matt Sydal because people actually give a fuck about Matt Sydal :roll:

Moxley cares so little about this stupid Double or Nothing match he couldn't even be bothered to cut a promo for it

THIS happened:

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Why is Malakai having a competitive match with Kyle O'Reilly? SQUASH HIS FUCKING ASS AND MAKE HIM FUCKING BLEED

We had WWE style shameless promoting of the new Furiosa movie

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We had predictable booking all over the place

On a different note, what's with this lame poster?

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Storm looks like a vampire and Deeb looks like a dork

THIS is a cool poster, and it's fan made:

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I'm noticing CM Punk chants on AEW lately. It's a very small part of the audience, but still audible. Not a good look for AEW

God, this stupid fucking company
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Re: The Wrestling Thread

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Yeah, I read about the episode. Sounds like they tried to throw everything at the wall and see what sticks.

Thr CM Punk chants issue... It's funny, when he was still with the company, fans booed him relentlessly. His last AEW match had 81,000 72,000 fans booing him, with signs like "best in the world at being a little bitch" being visible. When he was fired, even the Chicago crowd barely gave a fuck and had fun with it by singing "ohhhhh cry me a river". Now the narrative has done a total 180 shift. Wrestling is a funny thing.

Speaking of wrestling being funny. So Adam Copeland is going to do a bit of a Brood nostalgia revival, right? That's what this feud is about, I believe. I remember a lot of fans online wanting that in WWE and even complaining that Gangrel didn't show up (as it had been rumoured he would show up) at last year's Wrestlemania for a Brood entrance. Now, I see the same fans online yucking the idea of Edge doing something with his Brood gimmick. Weird.

Not that I am one of those fans who ever wanted a Brood Edge thing back though. I always thought the Brood stuff was kinda lame, even back in the 90s and don't really have much nostalgia for it. Not enough to want it to come back.

About the whole Darby is banned from the building thing...

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I just genuinely don't really get this Heel Elite taking over angle. What is their motivation? What do they want? How are they even "running" the show any differently, even in kayfabe terms?

There's not even any stakes or anything on the line at Double or Nothing right? What happens if the Elite wins? What happens if the AEW faces win? Like, nothing?

Anyways, seems like from what I saw most fans enjoyed the episode and those who aren't so hardcore thinking it was average, with some good bits and some bad bits. But as a go home show, it doesn't sound like it does its job to motivate people to buy the PPV imo.

AEW desperately needs to find its spark again. I'd do a fucking reset. Not a full blown dumb WCW style one, but I would seriously make some major internal changes and then do something drastic with their television.
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