Wii-U thoughts so far

[isiolia]

So in order to have the Wii recognize that bluetooth connection and interpret the WiiU pad as a game controller, the emulated Wii would need to be updated with the drivers for the WiiU pad and a completely different profile would be required for EVERY SINGLE GAME on the Wii.

Wouldn't this be on an OS level, not on a game level?

I mean, obviously, not all games support all controller types. However, the Gamepad or Pro Controller are quite similar to the Classic Controller/Pro in layout. Logically speaking, it's the Wii OS that is handling syncing controllers, accessing storage, network connections, all that.

Presumably, the ROM is already modified to an extent to boot on Wii U hardware. Nintendo should be able to add support for the new controllers and simply pass them to games as Classic Controllers. Then they'd work in any games that support that. It wouldn't be perfect, but I think it'd be acceptable to logical people.

But somehow Nintendo is shitty because they haven't created this reverse-compatibility which would introduce countless game breaking glitches that could never be anticipated without a whole team of people tweaking code for every game ever released on the Wii, both retail and digital?

It's a pretty standard feature if you think about it. Any PS1 game I put in my PS3, the PS3's OS is virtualizing Dual Shock 3 input, memory card images, and so on to make work. Same with the limited backwards compatibility on 360. Same, really, if I'm streaming a game with Steam In-Home Streaming. The game is receiving inputs from whatever virtualized I/O the emulator or VM has.

That the Wii U's setup isn't exactly the same isn't the point. I agree, it's different, and it's not as simple a thing to make it all work. My take is basically what Applequeso said. The Wii U isn't emulating. It's dual booting. That's the hurdle, because there isn't really that hardware abstraction layer to work with. It'd be like needing to make a DOS driver for a 360 pad, versus passing those inputs in via DOSBox.

I still think it's something they should do, because having the new input devices work for the old software is more or less standard outside of Nintendo (since Gamecube on the Wii was the same).

[Flake]

I'd still take the "works fairly well" approach of the 360/Software BC PS3 if Nintendo would bother. I have a lot of waggle-free Wii games I'd like to be able to play on the gamepad, and even if half of them worked that'd be nice.

I stand by the assertion that not including that as a feature is "fucking stupid" and, like Sony's switch to PS2 Classics on PSN, is likely tied to getting folks to rebuy. It may be good business, but I still wish they'd have figured out a way to support making the gamepad send out a wiimote BT signal. I can't imagine that's very hard or resource intensive.

I think I've already demonstrated how hard it actually is. Given all the other problems Nintendo is facing with the WiiU (as you've pointed out), do you really think they want to spend ANY resources on a feature that won't move ANY machines? Heck, the Nintendo Wii is still available commercially - what demand could their possibly be for this that would validate taking personnel off of developing software that will get the machine off the shelf?

[cha cha]

First off Flake, thank you for taking the time to articulate your points, you make good ones. I agree for Nintendo, taking the effort NOW isn't worth it, but it SHOULD have been designed with the console before launch.

I think this accentuates the point of Wii U being overall underpowered then. The Wii was already DRASTICALLY underpowered (in terms of hardware use and processing power) for it's generation and it's successor isn't even powerful enough to emulate hardware specs from 2 generations prior (Stop lying to yourselves if you still think the Wii wasn't basically a marginally improved Gamecube in a smaller shell).

Saying that the Wii U hardware is overtaxed by converting a bluetooth signal to Wii-recognized signals on top of having to emulate ancient hardware (by today's standards) spec'd games, to me, is a joke.

But I freakin' bought it anyways, because my wife really loves Mario Kart 8, so Nintendo wins. My high horse loses.

[ZeroAX]

You do know you could make the same argument about the PS3 not emulating the PS2....and now that I think about it, does the PS4 play PS2 and PS1 disks?

[Exhuminator]

Saying that the Wii U hardware is overtaxed by converting a bluetooth signal to Wii-recognized signals on top of having to emulate ancient hardware (by today's standards) spec'd games, to me, is a joke.

Exactly. I don't think Flake's logic holds water at all. The GamePad could definitely emulate the proper bluetooth signal of a Wii Remote combined with a Classic Controller (or CC Pro), it's nothing more than a range of preset frequencies. More than likely a firmware update could make this a reality. The only way it could not is if the GamePad's bluetooth transmitter was restricted intentionally in a hard wired manner, and I doubt that's the case.

[cha cha]

ZeroAX- My PS3 still emulates PS2 games... and does it well, so I am not following you.

[Flake]

Saying that the Wii U hardware is overtaxed by converting a bluetooth signal to Wii-recognized signals on top of having to emulate ancient hardware (by today's standards) spec'd games, to me, is a joke.

Exactly. I don't think Flake's logic holds water at all. The GamePad could definitely emulate the proper bluetooth signal of a Wii Remote combined with a Classic Controller (or CC Pro), it's nothing more than a range of preset frequencies. More than likely a firmware update could make this a reality. The only way it could not is if the GamePad's bluetooth transmitter was restricted intentionally in a hard wired manner, and I doubt that's the case.

My car will also sync to a wiimote bluetooth signal. But then what does it do? Just because something syncs does not mean that information is being exchanged meaningfully.

[isiolia]

The only way it could not is if the GamePad's bluetooth transmitter was restricted intentionally in a hard wired manner, and I doubt that's the case.

Based on the link he posted to Eurogamer, the Gamepad is sending input via WiFi, not Bluetooth.

The Pro Controller is Bluetooth though, from what I can tell.

You do know you could make the same argument about the PS3 not emulating the PS2....and now that I think about it, does the PS4 play PS2 and PS1 disks?

To me, the big angle here is that Nintendo has more or less used the same architecture since the Gamecube. It's not really the same situation the others are in. Nintendo could very likely allow the Wii U's OS to recognize Wii or even Gamecube software and run it in a compatibility layer, rather than in emulation.

Emulating PS2 games on PS3 seems to need a lot of specific tuning without parts of the old hardware built into the machine. There are only limited titles offered on PSN.
PS4 stuff is still rumor, far as I know. They're apparently working on the emulation (and rendering at 1080p/etc), but disc support is unclear.

[Exhuminator]

My car will also sync to a wiimote bluetooth signal. But then what does it do?

Nothing, because it isn't looking for specific information that is encoded in the Wii Remote bluetooth frequency.

Based on the link he posted to Eurogamer, the Gamepad is sending input via WiFi, not Bluetooth.

In that case Nintendo could offer a WiFi to bluetooth adapter that simply converts the WiFi signal of the GamePad into the bluetooth frequency used by Wii Remotes. The transmitter could then encode the frequency of the Wii Remote plus Classic Controller Pro. I think that would work. It would also mean Nintendo would sell less existing Classic Controller (or CC Pro) stock though.

[Flake]

My car will also sync to a wiimote bluetooth signal. But then what does it do?

Nothing, because it isn't looking for specific information that is encoded in the Wii Remote bluetooth frequency.

Indeed. And an emulated Wii is not looking for specific information that is encoded in the WiiU pad bluetooth frequency.

Based on the link he posted to Eurogamer, the Gamepad is sending input via WiFi, not Bluetooth.

In that case Nintendo could offer a WiFi to bluetooth adapter that simply converts the WiFi signal of the GamePad into the bluetooth frequency used by Wii Remotes. The transmitter could then encode the frequency of the Wii Remote plus Classic Controller Pro. I think that would work. It would also mean Nintendo would sell less existing Classic Controller (or CC Pro) stock though.

As has been said, yes: It is technically feasible to do this. The reason it is not happening is that there is not sufficient financial incentive to do so. No one is saying it is impossible - we are just saying that the reward for the effort is not enough for Nintendo to bother.