The Wrestling Thread

[Reprise]

People have been saying TNA is better for a while. Tbf, having watched some in recent months, I seriously doubt that people genuinely believe it and aren't just saying that as a way to shit on AEW. TNA's ok, but what I have seen isn't setting the world of wrestling alight.

AEW's issues aren't really that directly related to Toni Storm imo, although I agree she's annoying and I want them to take the title off of her. The problem is the show is stale as fuck. No one cares about The Young Bucks and Chris Jericho anymore. No one cares about Jon Moxley anymore. They have the same guys clogging up television time that they had 4-5 years ago. They are also hurting from losing people to injuries, like MJF, Omega, Adam Cole and Hangman. They should be able to weather those missing individuals, because they have Ospreay, Mone, Okada etc, but what are those guys doing that is interesting? Actually I'd say Mone's story is the most interesting, despite being probably the most derided. I get Ospreay has this story going on with the Don Callis family, but that should be a side story going on in the background.

The problem is predictability. Tony Khan is deciding where he wants to go and making it obvious to audiences, to the point where it means we as viewers can see the end destination based on what he presents to us as the starting line.

Let's see how right I am, this is the Double or Nothing card and this is my spoiler:

There are only two matches I think I might be wrong about and it's the FTW title match, because I haven't been paying ANY attention to Jericho's story. The other one is that Moxley Takeshita match. Wtf is this title eliminator nonsense? So Takeshita has to beat Moxley in order to have a title match against... Moxley? Either way, Mox is dropping that title at Forbidden Door, so he's probably winning this match.

1. Mercedes Moné defeats Willow Nightingale (Singles match for the AEW TBS Championship)
2. Will Ospreay defeats Roderick Strong (Singles match for the AEW International Championship)
3. "Timeless" Toni Storm defeats Serena Deeb (Singles match for the AEW Women's World Championship
4. Swerve Strickland defeats Christian Cage (Singles match for the AEW World Championship)
5. The Elite - Kazuchika Okada, Jack Perry, Matthew Jackson, and Nicholas Jackson defeat Team AEW - Bryan Danielson, Cash Wheeler, Dax Harwood, and Darby Allin (Anarchy in the Arena match)
6. Malakai Black defeats Adam Copeland (Barbed Wire Steel Cage match for the AEW TNT Championship)
7. Jon Moxley defeats Konosuke Takeshita (IWGP World Heavyweight Championship Eliminator match -
If Takeshita wins, he will receive a future IWGP World Heavyweight Championship match)
8. Orange Cassidy defeats Trent Beretta (Singles match)
9. Hook defeats Chris Jericho (Singles match for the FTW Championship)

Next thing to do is to predict the card for All In. I might think about doing that over the next week or so before it becomes too obvious to even provide my card predictions in order to prove the point that AEW is too predictable.

[Raging Justice]

Well isn't THAT interesting?

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/ ... _a_flower/



Random reporter - "Will Marigold be involved with WWE Ogawa-san?

Ogawa - "Oh, I don't know about that. Marigold is it's own thing"

People have been saying TNA is better for a while. Tbf, having watched some in recent months, I seriously doubt that people genuinely believe it and aren't just saying that as a way to shit on AEW. TNA's ok, but what I have seen isn't setting the world of wrestling alight.

AEW's issues aren't really that directly related to Toni Storm imo, although I agree she's annoying and I want them to take the title off of her. The problem is the show is stale as fuck. No one cares about The Young Bucks and Chris Jericho anymore. No one cares about Jon Moxley anymore. They have the same guys clogging up television time that they had 4-5 years ago. They are also hurting from losing people to injuries, like MJF, Omega, Adam Cole and Hangman. They should be able to weather those missing individuals, because they have Ospreay, Mone, Okada etc, but what are those guys doing that is interesting? Actually I'd say Mone's story is the most interesting, despite being probably the most derided. I get Ospreay has this story going on with the Don Callis family, but that should be a side story going on in the background.

The problem is predictability. Tony Khan is deciding where he wants to go and making it obvious to audiences, to the point where it means we as viewers can see the end destination based on what he presents to us as the starting line.

Let's see how right I am, this is the Double or Nothing card and this is my spoiler:

There are only two matches I think I might be wrong about and it's the FTW title match, because I haven't been paying ANY attention to Jericho's story. The other one is that Moxley Takeshita match. Wtf is this title eliminator nonsense? So Takeshita has to beat Moxley in order to have a title match against... Moxley? Either way, Mox is dropping that title at Forbidden Door, so he's probably winning this match.

1. Mercedes Moné defeats Willow Nightingale (Singles match for the AEW TBS Championship)
2. Will Ospreay defeats Roderick Strong (Singles match for the AEW International Championship)
3. "Timeless" Toni Storm defeats Serena Deeb (Singles match for the AEW Women's World Championship
4. Swerve Strickland defeats Christian Cage (Singles match for the AEW World Championship)
5. The Elite - Kazuchika Okada, Jack Perry, Matthew Jackson, and Nicholas Jackson defeat Team AEW - Bryan Danielson, Cash Wheeler, Dax Harwood, and Darby Allin (Anarchy in the Arena match)
6. Malakai Black defeats Adam Copeland (Barbed Wire Steel Cage match for the AEW TNT Championship)
7. Jon Moxley defeats Konosuke Takeshita (IWGP World Heavyweight Championship Eliminator match -
If Takeshita wins, he will receive a future IWGP World Heavyweight Championship match)
8. Orange Cassidy defeats Trent Beretta (Singles match)
9. Hook defeats Chris Jericho (Singles match for the FTW Championship)

Next thing to do is to predict the card for All In. I might think about doing that over the next week or so before it becomes too obvious to even provide my card predictions in order to prove the point that AEW is too predictable.

I think throwing Takeshita into the International title situation with a 3-4 person title match would have been a better use of him, and I might have put the title on him after having Callis screw Ospreay. Eliminator matches are an insult to the intelligence of your viewers. If someone beats the champion, THEY SHOULD BE THE CHAMPION!

The Trent/ Cassidy thing has been interesting, but it doesn't need to be a pay per view match

Now that I think about it, the FTW match could have been more interesting as a triple threat with Shibata involved, and maybe Bill could have turned on Jericho at the PPV costing him the match, and getting the title put on Shibata. I'd save Hook for a storyline where Samoa Joe takes him under his wing as a student. Somewhere down the line Hook maybe gets the title back after some tutelage from Samoa Joe. Mentor/student combinations have done wonders for some people like Sting/Darby and even Jericho/Sammy despite all the hate Jericho gets right now. Samoa Joe could easily tell Hook after the Jericho fiasco, "Are you ready for a REAL teacher now? Someone who can teach you how to be as unstoppable and ruthless as your own father was once?"

Swerve's match could have been so much more interesting if Hangman was back, and you could tease him getting involved. Same goes for the Anarchy in the Arena match. Having Hangman's possible presence looming over BOTH of those matches would have been awesome

I could have made this PPV so much more interesting

Predictability is a problem with both AEW and WWE right now. I'm so annoyed by the Tam/Mercedes/Willow thing because that could have generated a lot of buzz for both AEW AND Stardom had they handled it right. You know what's funny? We talk about how some people are too obsessed with star ratings. I think pro wrestling has become so predictable and the story telling so lazy, that a lot of fans HAVE to focus on match quality just to have a reason to stay interested in the products. The quality of what happens in the ring is about the only thing you can really rely on with a lot of modern pro wrestling promotions, except WWE (but they'll usually let people go all for pay per views).

[Raging Justice]

Interesting thing I read about AEW, they are apparently content striking lots of creators on youtube. I have seen people mention that WWE is much better at social media and internet presence than AEW, and apparently WWE doesn't constantly go after content creators like AEW does. Just something interesting to think about.

On a more positive note, this thread needs some great matches! Maybe I'll try posting them a bit more often. Here's a classic one from WWE:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMKxYoFzAjg

I saw a youtuber talk about Toni Storm, he doesn't hate her like I do, but he brought up one of my main issues with her. He says she feels like a mid-card act, but they stuck a world title on her. Yup, that's pretty much it. Plus, for whatever reason, I just don't find her entertaining. And that's coming from someone who likes stupid shit like this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/ ... _9th_2017/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlsFjBtbXm0

I just think your world title, and most titles in general, should be taken more seriously. Stupid shit has its place, but you have to know when to be serious. Being a company that bad mouths "sports entertainment" on a regular basis, but has a world title on Toni Storm just makes you look stupid IMO.

[Reprise]

What I hate about Toni Storm is how goofy the character is and a lot of that goofy sports entertainment stuff you get nowadays seems to be created to fit in with today's online meme and shitposting culture.

I have seen clips of her goofy antics that seem to have been done to try go go viral.

An example is also the whole black and white thing. Ruby Soho recently got married and photos have been shared of her and fellow wrestlers at the wedding, or maybe it was an engagement party, I am not sure. Anyways, Toni was there and photos of them all together having fun were photoshopped so that Toni is in black and white.

WWE does this shit too, with whole dumbass Jey Uso 'YEET' crap and his silly dance thing

Seth's outlandish costumes, as well as his theme song that was clearly created purely for crowds to singalong to are another example.

Even Punk and Drew's feud is basically like two teenagers having a flame war online and trying to out-meme eachother.

Where am I going with this? I don't know. I guess my point is I want serious competitors who hold the title and look or act like serious badasses who truly respect the title. And no, I don't mean that in the same way somebody like Vince would, where he just wants the title on one guy who is nothing but 6.5ft of pure muscle.

Anyways, moving on, here's how I would book the World Title for Wembley All In...

Swerve's opponent should be Will Ospreay. I have thought about it, contemplated who would be best as the next challenger, but I can't help but go back to Ospreay.

It will be a face vs face clash, but there will be a twist.

Hangman will return and continue to be a thorn in Swerve's side. He will be a heel, but one we can relate to. He will keep bringing up their past, the stuff Swerve did as a heel and how dare people cheer him etc. Eventually it will become a triple threat, just like last time.

This time, Swerve will be entering the triple threat as champion, but will remain the underdog. They, including commentary, will keep mentioning how Swerve couldn't win the match with Hangman there and that this might be it for Swerve.

During the match they will have call backs to their past feud and the last title triple threat. At some point, I would have Ospreay with Hangman in a submission hold with Swerve exhausted on the mat, staring as Hangman looks and at him and goes to tap... But this time, either Swerve will get there this time or something will break the hold.

Swerve will retain and he will pin Ospreay! It will be the first pin Ospreay eats and his first loss in AEW since signing. But he will be protected through shenanigans involving Hangman, who ironically will have inadvertently helped Swerve retain in this instance.

This will ultimately lead to a rematch between Ospreay and Swerve later down the line. At some point, after teases, with Hangman slowly leading Swerve down a dark path, Swerve will eventually turn heel and team up with Hangman, with them mentioning how they have forever been bonded by their previous bloodbaths and realising they are stronger together blah blah blah. Eventually, Swerve will drop the title to Ospreay.

[Raging Justice]

What I hate about Toni Storm is how goofy the character is and a lot of that goofy sports entertainment stuff you get nowadays seems to be created to fit in with today's online meme and shitposting culture.

I have seen clips of her goofy antics that seem to have been done to try go go viral.

An example is also the whole black and white thing. Ruby Soho recently got married and photos have been shared of her and fellow wrestlers at the wedding, or maybe it was an engagement party, I am not sure. Anyways, Toni was there and photos of them all together having fun were photoshopped so that Toni is in black and white.

WWE does this shit too, with whole dumbass Jey Uso 'YEET' crap and his silly dance thing

Seth's outlandish costumes, as well as his theme song that was clearly created purely for crowds to singalong to are another example.

Even Punk and Drew's feud is basically like two teenagers having a flame war online and trying to out-meme eachother.

Where am I going with this? I don't know. I guess my point is I want serious competitors who hold the title and look or act like serious badasses who truly respect the title. And no, I don't mean that in the same way somebody like Vince would, where he just wants the title on one guy who is nothing but 6.5ft of pure muscle.

Anyways, moving on, here's how I would book the World Title for Wembley All In...

Swerve's opponent should be Will Ospreay. I have thought about it, contemplated who would be best as the next challenger, but I can't help but go back to Ospreay.

It will be a face vs face clash, but there will be a twist.

Hangman will return and continue to be a thorn in Swerve's side. He will be a heel, but one we can relate to. He will keep bringing up their past, the stuff Swerve did as a heel and how dare people cheer him etc. Eventually it will become a triple threat, just like last time.

This time, Swerve will be entering the triple threat as champion, but will remain the underdog. They, including commentary, will keep mentioning how Swerve couldn't win the match with Hangman there and that this might be it for Swerve.

During the match they will have call backs to their past feud and the last title triple threat. At some point, I would have Ospreay with Hangman in a submission hold with Swerve exhausted on the mat, staring as Hangman looks and at him and goes to tap... But this time, either Swerve will get there this time or something will break the hold.

Swerve will retain and he will pin Ospreay! It will be the first pin Ospreay eats and his first loss in AEW since signing. But he will be protected through shenanigans involving Hangman, who ironically will have inadvertently helped Swerve retain in this instance.

This will ultimately lead to a rematch between Ospreay and Swerve later down the line. At some point, after teases, with Hangman slowly leading Swerve down a dark path, Swerve will eventually turn heel and team up with Hangman, with them mentioning how they have forever been bonded by their previous bloodbaths and realising they are stronger together blah blah blah. Eventually, Swerve will drop the title to Ospreay.

That all sounds good to me.

I like the idea of Hangman and Swerve as those forever friends/rivals like we kind of had with Sami Zayne/Kevin Owens or Tanahashi/Okada when you look back on their careers. I always envisioned Hangman and Swerve partnering up at some point. Imagine them ending a tag match with a buckshot lariat/swerve stomp combo. 1...2...3!!!!

Eventually, Hangman needs to have a little more going on in AEW than just his connection to The Elite, and Swerve is an upgrade from the Dork Order and no I didn't misspell Dark.

I think it would be fascinating for Hangman to be a tweener. Like having him go against The Elite as a face but be a heel around Swerve. Honestly, that would just make him feel like a REAL HUMAN BEING.

The Drew/Punk thing was cool until Punk made a fool of him at Mania. Now no matter how cool Drew's shots at Punk may be, he just looks like a loser who poked the bear (Punk) and paid the price for it (being champ for like 5 minutes). WWE is really good at completely BURYING people once they start having some momentum. They do it ALL..THE...FUCKING...TIME. I HATE the Damien Priest cash in at Mania. It buried Drew, and made Priest look like a dipshit for not going after the more valuable title, not to mention the metric fuck ton of heat he would have gotten for beating Cody which is EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT FOR A GODDAMN HEEL!!!!

Now all I see people say is what a lame champion Damien Priest is.

I know someone might say, "Oh that would have buried Cody". Bullshit. He still ended Roman's reign and given the goddamn, super, mega push the company has given him I'm pretty damn sure he would have bounced back from it just fine.

I think catering to meme/shitposting culture is kind of annoying and is one of the big problems in pro wrestling today. It makes it hard for people to take anything seriously, and it thus becomes harder to get people emotionally invested in anything that happens. Like, it doesn't bother me that Swerve got over as a face, good for him, but it's crazy that a guy broke into a man's house and invaded the room of his infant child and people were cheering for him and doing the Prince Nana dance like two or three months later. It also drives me nuts when someone is doing a serious or emotional promo and people are going, "What?"

[Raging Justice]

We were talking about wrestling video games before. You know, it's fun to see wrestling in non-wrestling video games sometimes. It's not something worth making a separate thread over as it'd get no attention I'm sure, but it could be fun to talk about here. One of my favorite Switch games is New Super Lucky's Tale. The third world has a bunch of yetis who used to be wrestlers before deciding to forgo violence and walk the path of peace

It had to be yetis of course because they are large creatures LOL. What's also funny is one of them says "brother" a lot, one is name Brutus Beefcake, and another says "madness" when he's talking. I noticed when they speak the text seems to always be in all caps too There's even a possibly unintentional joke surrounding one yeti who is a "juicer". The game means healthy juices because the yetis are all health nuts as part of their spiritual lifestyle, but you can gather the possible joke regarding "juicing"

There's a level revolving around spiritual enlightenment called, "The Ladder Match of the Mind" and it's a vertically ascending platforming level (and a really fun one at that)

The best bit is after you beat the boss of the world and are ready to move on to the next one. The head yeti (named THE CHAMP) says:

"OUR LOVE FOR WRESTLING ONCE TOOK US DOWN THE DARK PATH. REAL COMBAT CAUSES REAL INJURIES!
BUT, WHAT IF WE COULD MAKE IT SOMETHING FUN AGAIN, WITHOUT THE SENSELESS VIOLENCE, BROTHERS?
WHAT IF WE COULD SHARE OUR JOY OF WRESTLING WITH FANS IN A SAFE WAY?"

Greg the Mailgolem - "Something like... Sports... Entertainment?"

The champ - "EXACTLY, PERFORMANCE WRESTLING! PRETEND VIOLENCE EXPRESSED PEACEFULLY! HARMONIOUS HAYMAKERS, YEAH!"

Greg the Mailgolem - "Okay, I think it's time to go..."

[Reprise]

That all sounds good to me.

I like the idea of Hangman and Swerve as those forever friends/rivals like we kind of had with Sami Zayne/Kevin Owens or Tanahashi/Okada when you look back on their careers. I always envisioned Hangman and Swerve partnering up at some point. Imagine them ending a tag match with a buckshot lariat/swerve stomp combo. 1...2...3!!!!

Eventually, Hangman needs to have a little more going on in AEW than just his connection to The Elite, and Swerve is an upgrade from the Dork Order and no I didn't misspell Dark.

I think it would be fascinating for Hangman to be a tweener. Like having him go against The Elite as a face but be a heel around Swerve. Honestly, that would just make him feel like a REAL HUMAN BEING.

Yeah, this is exactly what I want to see too. I think Hangman would be a great tweeener. I think it would be better than just bringing him back and immediately turning him either face or heel in order to place him into the Elite vs AEW storyline.

He should have a problem with the Elite - they suspended him after all - but I don't want him joining 'team AEW' and being a happy smiley face.

I think they should slowly turn Swerve heel. All these references to his actions as a heel should be what gradually turn him, because he's trying to be good, but people won't let him. He can't be rehabilitated when those involved during his heel period will not allow it. I think Hangman should be straw that breaks the camel's back so to speak, but that it will ultimately lead to them them partnering up. As you said, they make a great forever friends/rival duo.

At some point I'd maybe have Hangman win the world title again too. He deserves another reign at some point.

The Drew and Punk thing was pretty good for a while, but I agree about Damien Priest. I would have also had him cash in on Cody and end Mania with a bang. Now that would have got a ton of attention and been so much more interesting. It would have pissed off so many fans, but in a good way that would keep viewers invested and engaged.

We were talking about wrestling video games before. You know, it's fun to see wrestling in non-wrestling video games sometimes. It's not something worth making a separate thread over as it'd get no attention I'm sure, but it could be fun to talk about here. One of my favorite Switch games is New Super Lucky's Tale. The third world has a bunch of yetis who used to be wrestlers before deciding to forgo violence and walk the path of peace

It had to be yetis of course because they are large creatures LOL. What's also funny is one of them says "brother" a lot, one is name Brutus Beefcake, and another says "madness" when he's talking. I noticed when they speak the text seems to always be in all caps too There's even a possibly unintentional joke surrounding one yeti who is a "juicer". The game means healthy juices because the yetis are all health nuts as part of their spiritual lifestyle, but you can gather the possible joke regarding "juicing"

There's a level revolving around spiritual enlightenment called, "The Ladder Match of the Mind" and it's a vertically ascending platforming level (and a really fun one at that)

The best bit is after you beat the boss of the world and are ready to move on to the next one. The head yeti (named THE CHAMP) says:

"OUR LOVE FOR WRESTLING ONCE TOOK US DOWN THE DARK PATH. REAL COMBAT CAUSES REAL INJURIES!
BUT, WHAT IF WE COULD MAKE IT SOMETHING FUN AGAIN, WITHOUT THE SENSELESS VIOLENCE, BROTHERS?
WHAT IF WE COULD SHARE OUR JOY OF WRESTLING WITH FANS IN A SAFE WAY?"

Greg the Mailgolem - "Something like... Sports... Entertainment?"

The champ - "EXACTLY, PERFORMANCE WRESTLING! PRETEND VIOLENCE EXPRESSED PEACEFULLY! HARMONIOUS HAYMAKERS, YEAH!"

Greg the Mailgolem - "Okay, I think it's time to go..."

Oh, I have that game and I haven't played it yet! I got it because my son was talking about it and I saw it second hand for a good price, so I picked it up. He played it for a bit, but I completely forgot to play it. Maybe I will try it this week.

[Raging Justice]

We were talking about wrestling video games before. You know, it's fun to see wrestling in non-wrestling video games sometimes. It's not something worth making a separate thread over as it'd get no attention I'm sure, but it could be fun to talk about here. One of my favorite Switch games is New Super Lucky's Tale. The third world has a bunch of yetis who used to be wrestlers before deciding to forgo violence and walk the path of peace

It had to be yetis of course because they are large creatures LOL. What's also funny is one of them says "brother" a lot, one is name Brutus Beefcake, and another says "madness" when he's talking. I noticed when they speak the text seems to always be in all caps too There's even a possibly unintentional joke surrounding one yeti who is a "juicer". The game means healthy juices because the yetis are all health nuts as part of their spiritual lifestyle, but you can gather the possible joke regarding "juicing"

There's a level revolving around spiritual enlightenment called, "The Ladder Match of the Mind" and it's a vertically ascending platforming level (and a really fun one at that)

The best bit is after you beat the boss of the world and are ready to move on to the next one. The head yeti (named THE CHAMP) says:

"OUR LOVE FOR WRESTLING ONCE TOOK US DOWN THE DARK PATH. REAL COMBAT CAUSES REAL INJURIES!
BUT, WHAT IF WE COULD MAKE IT SOMETHING FUN AGAIN, WITHOUT THE SENSELESS VIOLENCE, BROTHERS?
WHAT IF WE COULD SHARE OUR JOY OF WRESTLING WITH FANS IN A SAFE WAY?"

Greg the Mailgolem - "Something like... Sports... Entertainment?"

The champ - "EXACTLY, PERFORMANCE WRESTLING! PRETEND VIOLENCE EXPRESSED PEACEFULLY! HARMONIOUS HAYMAKERS, YEAH!"

Greg the Mailgolem - "Okay, I think it's time to go..."

Oh, I have that game and I haven't played it yet! I got it because my son was talking about it and I saw it second hand for a good price, so I picked it up. He played it for a bit, but I completely forgot to play it. Maybe I will try it this week.

It's a fun, old school, platformer in the same vein as games like Mario, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Sonic, etc. Nothing too fancy, but very well designed and fun. What impressed me is how the game alternates between 3d platforming and 2d platforming. It's not a one trick pony. A little advice I would give you is to talk to the NPCs and not just once. Some of the dialog is funny and most of the characters have multiple lines of dialog if you talk to them more than once. Part of the reason I like the game is that the characters are charming, particularly Greg the Mailgolem who has funny bits of advice he gives you during loading screens. I'm a sucker for little details too. I like how the game has various wildlife in it and your character when left idle will often turn his head to look at random things like bugs on the ground or a butterfly flying around and when there's nothing interesting for him to look at he just starts looking directly towards the screen at YOU the player.

Two other games with fun wrestling elements are Guacamelee - an ode to lucha libre in some ways, and Puppeteer - which has a boss fight that is a riff on pro wrestling

You know talking about Hangman and Swerve, I think it's interesting how WWE likes to pick a guy and just push him to the moon. Meanwhile, we heard recently how AEW was thinking of really pushing seven guys. It makes me wonder which is the better business approach. I know there once was a point in time when it was said that they wanted Hangman to be "The Guy". Now it kind of feels like Hangman and six other dudes are "The guys"

[Raging Justice]

One of the things I loved about both Lucha Underground and AEW was being able to witness the inception of these things, witnessing a little piece of history. There's apparently an English broadcast of Marigold's first show. I'm gonna watch it, and witness a little bit of wrestling history yet again



I've heard that the show had a pretty good crowd and that the match involving Sareee, Utami, Bozilla, and Giulia was really good. This Bozilla person was pretty over too apparently. You have to imagine some people in WWE were watching cause...you know

[Raging Justice]

Too bad Mirai's in Marigold, can't fucking stand her.