Classic games economics and ethics

[Erik_Twice]

Ultimately I think too many people compare current prices to the time when old games were considered garbage and were either on cleareance or thrown in the street or both.

I think people should accept that this "Brief period of Utopia" as Betagam7 called it, was an oddity that won't come back. Toys R'Us won't clear thousand of SNES games ever again and those arcades that closed in 2004 dumped their 30 year-old machines just once.

And gaming is popular now. It's no longer something exclusive to an extremely small demographic of young, nerdy adults. Now women, middle-aged men and kids all interest themselves in retrogaming and want to partake. Culturally we aren't going back and, hence, prices won't, either.

People also forget that we are paying heavily discounted prices on games. Phantasy Star or Chrono Trigger would cost over 160$ today at their original retail price. And while they are old, a lot of old stuff keeps their price for very long. I mean, I'm buying model trains right now and an old, crummy Rivarrossi Mikado made in the 70s costs you only a little less than a cutting edge Kato-made model made five years ago. And this is something that ages far worse than games, let me assure you that.

This does not mean there are not abusive sellers or irrational prices. Just two days ago a seller on ebay removed their copy of Transarctica from auction. When I asked him why, he told me it seemed like it wasn't going to sell well and that "others sold for 50€".

Those 50€ copies have never been sold. The only successful sales were priced around 7€. So now there's one less copy on sale with a reasonable price.

affluent collectors line their houses with unplayed copies of Holy Diver and those of us who used to enjoy playing videogames[...]

Not to be rude, but I think you are one of those "affluent collectors". People who just want to play games do not buy Game.coms or care about original hardware or packaging.


On another matter, while I do understand the fear of being duped into a bootleg, I support reproductions as I do not believe this kind of cultural artifacts should be limited only to those that can afford the massive prices of the original. Ideally we would get a super-Criterion release of every game with reproduction of their original materials, director commentaries and me talking shit on a feature but, alas, we don't.

[marurun]

On another matter, while I do understand the fear of being duped into a bootleg, I support reproductions as I do not believe this kind of cultural artifacts should be limited only to those that can afford the massive prices of the original. Ideally we would get a super-Criterion release of every game with reproduction of their original materials, director commentaries and me talking shit on a feature but, alas, we don't.

We are getting that for some games. Look at Capcom's latest Mega Man collection. It may not be in the original format, but the NES and SNES aren't being made any more. Ultimately, the Mega Man collection has the potential to outsell any of the classic games contained on it.

Here's another thing to consider. SuperNES sold approximately 49 million units. Some of those were broken or trashed, so there are fewer total units available. The Playstation 2 sold in excess of 155 million units. The Playstation 4 is already at 60+ million units and it is still going strong. Newer console generations, generally speaking, sell better than older console generations. And the modern definition of AAA game sales is different from that of 25 years ago as well.

[Markies]

I have no problem with repros for games that were unreleased (like my StarFox 2 repro) or fan translated if you don't have a Retron 5 or similar device (I used to have repros of the three SNES Fire Emblems for that reason), and I think fan hacks on cartridges are just awesome, but repros of games that got released here and are just expensive? No, not cool. And as Sarge said, it's ESPECIALLY not cool when there's a legitimate re-release that's affordable. Don't buy a repro; just download Earthbound on your Wii U. If you don't own a Wii U, then shame on you, scrub.

I have been getting into Game Reproductions lately and I have been enjoying them. But, like everybody has said, they are for games that aren't released here. For example, I own Bare Knuckle III, Mega Man: The Wily Wars, Final Fantasy II, III & V and Dragon Quest V & VI. But, all of those are the Japanese/International versions and not released here.

I also own a hacked XBOX that plays MAME and has almost every game before the N64/PS1 era. I don't use that as much because I don't count actually owning a physical copy. I mostly use that for MAME and to test out games that I might want to purchase.

A nearby game store sells Repros and they are clearly marked as Repros. They are mostly for games that weren't released in NA. However, recently, he was selling Little Samson Repros. That was interesting. It's a NA game, but it also goes for $1000. I passed on it cause I felt a little bit dirty. Maybe, later on, I could see myself buying it, but I'm just not ready yet.

[Anayo]

1. Is it unethical to pirate a game which is no longer commercially unavailable? The source code for Panzer Dragoon Saga has been lost. Neither Sega nor Team Andromeda couldn't re-release that game even if they wanted to. On the topic of Sega Saturn games, I own original Japanese copies of Shining Force III Scenarios 2 and 3. I patched them on my computer to play them in English. But how did keeping this moral high ground benefit the developers? The price I paid went to an eBayer, not Camelot or Sega. And what about games where the source code is available and developers withhold it from the market anyway? Is it ethical for developers to create something and prohibit their fans from playing it, even if fans were willing to purchase it? Do I need to buy a Ninja Baseball Bat Man arcade cabinet to be an ethical gamer?

2. Is it unethical to pirate a game which is only commercially available with DRM? For instance, I adored the Nintendo Virtual Console when it was launched, but compared to Steam, it's really behind the times. Steam has kept my games stored on the cloud for over a decade and I can install them on any compatible device I wish. Why can't I play my 3DS virtual console copy of Super Mario 3 on my Wii U? Must I buy the same game twice? And Nintendo still hasn't cleared up whether the Switch will support Wii and Wii-U virtual console games. I'm not sure if this makes it right to download roms or buy repro carts, but it makes me very uncomfortable with buying virtual console games from Nintendo.

3. Are reproduction boxes and manuals just as unethical as reproduction game cartridges? Obviously these satisfy a fascination some people have for displaying pretty boxes on a shelf, but aren't the artwork and text on them just as much a copyrighted work as the game code? Are developers obligated to fulfill this demand if they don't want their work infringed upon? Would it even be profitable to do so? Is it still unethical if the original copyright holder just doesn't care one way or another?

[BoneSnapDeez]

But the sort default puts Bone's post at the top.

Damn right it does.

[o.pwuaioc]

1. Is it unethical...?

I'd say it's actually unethical to have copyright over intellectual properties as long as we do. The Copyright Act of 1790 allowed for fourteen years with an option to renew for another fourteen. Most NES games would be out of copyright by today, if we hadn't changed it. Anyone would have been able to make a 2D Metroid and Zelda game on any system without fear of Nintendo's reprisal.

That's a world I would want to live in.

[Anayo]

1. Is it unethical...?

I'd say it's actually unethical to have copyright over intellectual properties as long as we do. The Copyright Act of 1790 allowed for fourteen years with an option to renew for another fourteen. Most NES games would be out of copyright by today, if we hadn't changed it. Anyone would have been able to make a 2D Metroid and Zelda game on any system without fear of Nintendo's reprisal.

That's a world I would want to live in.

Yeah, at the very least for computer software. I don't think current copyright laws were written with Moore's Law in mind.

[MrPopo]

All of our current intellectual property laws could use some major updating. Maybe some form of use it or lose it along with a max cap on copyright. Patent law no longer matches the pace of modern invention and development and really only gets used for trolling and protecting against being trolled. Trademark is the only one in a decent place, but it leads to C&Ds with really bad optics thanks to the need to vigorously defend the trademark.

[marlowe221]

All of our current intellectual property laws could use some major updating. Maybe some form of use it or lose it along with a max cap on copyright. Patent law no longer matches the pace of modern invention and development and really only gets used for trolling and protecting against being trolled. Trademark is the only one in a decent place, but it leads to C&Ds with really bad optics thanks to the need to vigorously defend the trademark.

As a lawyer, I agree with this assessment of current US intellectual property law. It's been changed over the years to completely favor large corporate interests in every possible way. The consumer has virtually no rights at all these days.

It's an "open your mouth and close your eyes" situation for the consumer - it's all kinds of fucked up.

[Gunstar Green]

All of our current intellectual property laws could use some major updating. Maybe some form of use it or lose it along with a max cap on copyright.

I feel like that's how it should be too. If it were the case, stuff like Star Citizen could have happened in the Wing Commander universe since EA wouldn't be just allowed to sit on top of the IP for what essentially amounts to forever.