"What do you do for a living?" Thread

[MrPopo]

Thanks J T, now you're saying I'm more susceptible to commit suicide.

So are the many gun owners on this site.

Access to lethal means is one of the best predictors of suicide because suicide is such an inconsistent behavior. It sometimes happens after a long history of suffering, but other times happens impulsively after a temporarily upsetting event. Many people survive suicide by simple virtue of the fact that they simply didn't have a way to kill themselves during a window of time when they were suicidal. If they just get through that window of time, their suicidality is gone sometimes temporarily, but sometimes indefinitely. Many people that attempt suicide generally appeared "normal" for much of their lives, though rates are higher for those with a diagnosable mental illness, particularly when substance use is involved or high levels of shame or burdensomeness. Occupational stress isn't a particularly strong predictor of suicide, which is why you're more likely to see the higher suicide rates in jobs with access to lethal means.

Makes sense. Let's say that everyone has a 5 minute window in their life where they are just completely despondent and want to kill themselves. If they can figure out how to do it in that 5 minute window then it happens, otherwise the feeling passes and they never think of suicide again. In that world you would expect a higher incidence of suicide among those with ready access to something that can kill them.

What JT is NOT saying is that those who own guns or work around heavy machinery are more likely to be suicidally depressed.

[elmagicochrisg]

As far as I know, mental health professionals are more likely to have history of mental health problems than the general population, but also have less problems currently.

I wonder if this goes for all mental health professionals, or if there is a difference between for instance psychologists and psychiatrist...

[Luke]

Access to lethal means is one of the best predictors of suicide because suicide is such an inconsistent behavior.

Not to knock you (and you didn't say "THE BEST PREDICTOR"), but kids are smart enough to kill themselves with a shoestring, and suicide isn't "inconstant behavior".

Unfortunately I'm quite familiar with victims of suicide, and the best predictor has always been a cry for help. And then repeated cries for help. Lethal means are way down the chain as people will kill themselves if they want to. Hell, every kid has access to a grocery bag.

[Luke]

psychologists and psychiatrist...

Different ballgame, same goals.

[J T]

Not to knock you (and you didn't say "THE BEST PREDICTOR"), but kids are smart enough to kill themselves with a shoestring, and suicide isn't "inconstant behavior".

Unfortunately I'm quite familiar with victims of suicide, and the best predictor has always been a cry for help. And then repeated cries for help. Lethal means are way down the chain as people will kill themselves if they want to. Hell, every kid has access to a grocery bag.

The best predictor is actually a past suicide attempt. Not to say that cries for help aren't important to pay attention to, they obviously are.

And lethal means are higher up the chain than you give them credit for and the data will support me on that. While it is true that a highly determined suicidal individual can kill themselves in a million different ways, the facts are that many are not highly determined, but ambivalent. If a lethal method is fast, requires little effort, and has less pain leading up to death, then it will be a more likely method to end in death. This is why more people die by firearms rather than grocery bags, despite the greater prevalence of grocery bags.

And to clarify on what I meant by the "inconsistency" of suicide, I meant that it occurs with all types of people under all types of circumstances. You don't have to have major depressive disorder to die by suicide, which is commonly believed. Suicide is a well studied, yet still not well understood topic in psychology. We can discuss risk factors for suicide, but we still don't know what drives some people to do it, and others not.

[Jmustang1968]

Not to knock you (and you didn't say "THE BEST PREDICTOR"), but kids are smart enough to kill themselves with a shoestring, and suicide isn't "inconstant behavior".

Unfortunately I'm quite familiar with victims of suicide, and the best predictor has always been a cry for help. And then repeated cries for help. Lethal means are way down the chain as people will kill themselves if they want to. Hell, every kid has access to a grocery bag.

The best predictor is actually a past suicide attempt. Not to say that cries for help aren't important to pay attention to, they obviously are.

And lethal means are higher up the chain than you give them credit for and the data will support me on that. While it is true that a highly determined suicidal individual can kill themselves in a million different ways, the facts are that many are not highly determined, but ambivalent. If a lethal method is fast, requires little effort, and has less pain leading up to death, then it will be a more likely method to end in death. This is why more people die by firearms rather than grocery bags, despite the greater prevalence of grocery bags.

Aren't past suicides attempts really just cries for help? Arent most people who genuinely want to commit suicide successful? And those that do not are just crying out in an extreme way for help/attention?

[elmagicochrisg]

psychologists and psychiatrist...

Different ballgame, same goals.

Hence the (rhetorical) question...

The best predictor is actually a past suicide attempt. Not to say that cries for help aren't important to pay attention to, they obviously are.

Suicide attempts are a cry for help. Otherwise they wouldn't be attempts. At least not in most cases...

[Jmustang1968]

psychologists and psychiatrist...

Different ballgame, same goals.

Hence the (rhetorical) question...

The best predictor is actually a past suicide attempt. Not to say that cries for help aren't important to pay attention to, they obviously are.

Suicide attempts are a cry for help. Otherwise they wouldn't be attempts. At least not in most cases...

Holy shit it must be a blue moon, we agreed on something.

[Luke]

Aren't past suicides attempts really just cries for help? Arent most people who genuinely want to commit suicide successful? And those that do not are just crying out in an extreme way for help/attention?

Yes, yes, and yes.

[J T]

Aren't past suicides attempts really just cries for help? Arent most people who genuinely want to commit suicide successful? And those that do not are just crying out in an extreme way for help/attention?

Not everyone who is attempting suicide wants help. Not everyone crying for help will attempt suicide.

People who genuinely 100% want to kill themselves will probably find a way, but killing yourself is harder than it sounds, especially without the proper tools and a knowledge of how to use them.

Though some attempters are crying out for help, others are doing everything they can do to hide their suicidal behaviors and thoughts from others.