You can't sue Microsoft either now.

[MrPopo]

Statement 2 said nothing about any legislation we may have enacted. It was speaking only towards public opinion. It's the only explanation I have for the numerous people I see, both on this forum and in my daily life, who are shocked when a company does something they consider to be morally wrong.

You're mistaking outrage for shock. There is nothing any company can do that would shock me with its depravity. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see corporations lobbying for the repeal of the 13th amendment, I'd still be pissed off if it passed. The real WTF isn't that corporations are immoral profit seeking machines, it's that people tolerate the existence of immoral profit seeking machines.

It's endemic to humanity. There will ALWAYS be people or groups that only care about profit. The best you can do is set up things so you limit the damage they can do during profit seeking and try and align them seeking profit with you benefitting in some way.

[Hatta]

unlike you, because you bitch about it on a forum? I've mentioned that I'm sympathetic - to a certain extent - with your position. But posturing here does little if anything to fix the problem. seriously, let's see proof of the courage of your convictions, let's see something proactive, or gtfo.

If you have a suggestion how a guy with no money, no guns, and no political influence can go up against a highly efficient political machine, I'd love to hear them. Martyring myself in an act of civil disobedience would be pointless, if not counter productive, right now. Really the best thing we can do today is consensus build.

It's endemic to humanity. There will ALWAYS be people or groups that only care about profit. The best you can do is set up things so you limit the damage they can do during profit seeking and try and align them seeking profit with you benefitting in some way.

I agree actually. You can't eliminate human greed, you can only mitigate it. The problem is that limiting liability via the corporate shield exacerbates it. The incentives are entirely opposite of what they should be. If anything, people with greater power should face greater liability.

[Inazuma]

This is not surprising. I would normally say something like, "That's it! I will no longer support Xbox Live in any way because of this bullshit.", but I have already been doing it for years. I never bought an Xbox 360, and never plan on buying one.

Even though this new anti-lawsuit bullshit doesn't affect me directly, it still bothers me very much. Just how far with this shit spread? Will we reach a point where every major corporation cannot be sued? Please, everyone. Stop using PSN and Xbox Live. Stop tolerating this bullshit or we will have no rights left.

Big corporations already run the world. The least we can do is educate ourselves about it and do what we can to help improve things and/or stop them from getting worse.

[isiolia]

Just how far with this shit spread? Will we reach a point where every major corporation cannot be sued?

Probably, until/unless a state/court comes out and says they can't and it sets a precedent. For the time being, objectively speaking, they'd be foolish not to include it. Instead of the knee-jerk boycott reaction, which means nothing to them in the face of potentially saving millons/billions, write to lawmakers that can actually stand up and say they can't do that.

Not that most EULAs would allow you to sue for much anyway, since most are basically going to say that their product is provided as-is, that it's certified for nothing, they aren't liable for damages save maybe what you have invested (I think NIntendo's specifies Points), they can cancel a service at any time for any reason with no refunds, etc...but if you do anything to harm them, you're liable for all damages and legal fees.
Also they can turn you into a human centipad. You agreed to it.

[DinnerX]

With EULAs and such, sometimes I get this weird feeling like I'm the hero of some Disney-esque movie and it probably won't end well if I sign the sorcerer's contract.

Then I remember they just want my money, not my soul...

[theclaw]

As long as EULAs are hidden inside the box, if not even on disc, no way to review them before purchase... It's a lost cause. All sorts of crippling terms are open to potentially include.

But I still say NDAs are what gamers should direct their ire toward. There's too little transparency. Back room exclusivity deals in bad faith are easy to get away with. And users can't identify the real culprits of any wrongdoing, while innocent companies have no way to defend themselves against false accusations by trolls/etc.

[Flake]

I wonder if the law is the real reason companies are able to get away with this or if the real culprit is the cult of gamers - this generation, all three companies have had some kind of royal mess up that should have done something to impugn their reputations with customers: Sony with their network security, Microsoft with their shoddy products, and Nintendo with their nigh-gouging of early adopters with a constant stream of iterative products.

But all three platform holders are no worse for wear in terms of sales.

Certainly the collective group known as 'gamers' constitutes a political lobby sufficiently large to have laws passed at its bequest, or at least to present a potential difficulty to game industry lobbies (which I assume exist). Yet gamers have short memories, draconian EULA or not.

Legally, how can anything be fixed when we all are so quick to forgive?

I for one have been hit by all three companies in the last couple years. I had an Xbox that broke after a year (and then Microsoft tried to continue to charge me for XBL), I got a PS3 just months before Sony let millions of accounts be compromised, and I purchased a 3DS on day one - which stings since I have yet to find a 3DS game worth keeping after the first play through.

But with the exception of an Xbox, I still buy products that support Sony and Nintendo. The only reason I do not have an xbox is I view it as a substitute good for the PS3.

I think my situation is the norm in our demographic - and that has to be part of the problem.

[AppleQueso]

It's video games. Most people don't really give a shit about the politics surrounding it, and I don't blame them.

There's far better avenues to fight for consumer rights than chastising people on a video game forum because they don't want to bother boycotting your least favorite game system.

[Zing]

If companies are legally able to ruin the environment if it makes them a profit, is it ok that they do that, too?

Acts such as harming the environment negatively affect everyone living in the area. This should fall under government control as it is essentially damaging another person's life or property without their consent.

A voluntarily entered EULA between two parties is a private matter and affects no one other than the two parties. Both sides should be permitted to enter into this contract and the government should not be involved in any fashion. To do so would be overextending the reach of government into legislating morals.

I find it bizarre that people use phrases such as "getting away with it" when talking about this EULA.

[dsheinem]

If you have a suggestion how a guy with no money, no guns, and no political influence can go up against a highly efficient political machine, I'd love to hear them. Martyring myself in an act of civil disobedience would be pointless, if not counter productive, right now. Really the best thing we can do today is consensus build.

Those are all excuses. There are plenty of historical examples of people changing things across the world without any of those resources (at least initially).

No money? Pursue those education and career paths that will either give you money or give you sway with people who do. I don't agree that all change has to be grounded in a huge budget, but you're right that money talks in much of major politics. That's a shame but a reality. But let's not pretend that money isn't unattainable or that you somehow would have to compromise your principles to attain it.

No guns? I am not advocating a "second amendment solution," so that's not something i am going to suggest...

No political influence? Get involved in politics at some level (it doesn't all require money, and influence isn't created overnight). Work on a campaign for a candidate that you believe in. Run for office and work to figure out how to make your positions seem like the right ones for people who will be voting for you.

The trick isn't to "go up against a huge political machine," it is to infiltrate and utilize the system that is in place to enforce some of the changes you hope to see. You clearly have a set of political beliefs and ideas how things should be, but that isn't doing anything for you if you just sit on it or complain to people you know...consensus building is, ideally, a much bigger task.