Retail Threatens Steam Ban

[alienjesus]

Also, it is a valid argument since you factor in the convenience of consoles, and not having to wait for games to be installed is a major convenience. Just like it was a major convenience to have games on cartridges over CDs due to instant loading. Or instant scene skip in DVDs etc. Convenience is always a factor. You can't rule it out just because you disagree with it.

true, but I just don't see it as a valid reason to say "I never game on PC, installs suck".

I know that you weren't talking about yourself, and I originally planned to say it in that post, but I was bored, I said I'll add the comment later, and forgot about it.

Id like to point out that that's not what I was saying either. Its one of several factors that discourage me from PC gaming, but I certainly dont begrudge people less lazy and more adaptable to the controls and more understanding of the hardware than me who enjoy PC gaming.

[jfrost]

Honestly, I found PC gaming tiresome until recently, when I got into Steam. Not having to worry about patches or even DRM schemes for most games is so convenient. Also, I never even see installs with Steam.

I just press "Install game" and come here to post something on Racketboy. When I'm done, the game is already installed and ready to play.

I do have to change resolutions and whatnot, but most games make this very simple and some even have pre-set configurations for people who are to lazy to test each option.

Controllers are not even a problem anymore, since they're mostly instantly recognized, so you don't have to fiddle around with anything. I know how people sometimes feel about PC gaming and in my mind it's hard to blame them. When you come from a day of work and want to play a game, the last thing you want is to fuck around forever with settings to get it running.

[Erik_Twice]

Also, it is a valid argument since you factor in the convenience of consoles, and not having to wait for games to be installed is a major convenience.

It's not major at all. You only need to do it once and takes 10 minutes. I don't think that waiting 10 minutes once per game is going to kill anyone specially since PC games tend to have lower loading times that will get those 10 minutes back.

[Niode]

Also, it is a valid argument since you factor in the convenience of consoles, and not having to wait for games to be installed is a major convenience.

It's not major at all. You only need to do it once and takes 10 minutes. I don't think that waiting 10 minutes once per game is going to kill anyone specially since PC games tend to have lower loading times that will get those 10 minutes back.

Against not waiting at all? I'd say that was a pretty big convenience... You're forgetting to include patch download/install times as well.

[ZeroAX]

Against not waiting at all? I'd say that was a pretty big convenience... You're forgetting to include patch download/install times as well.

we are not saying that playing on consoles ain't faster. We're just saying that saying "I don't game on PC, I'm a 5 year old kid that can't wait 10 minutes before playing with his toy" is a lame point to make against PCs.

Like someone said (I think you). It's like saying I'll never game on optical media based consoles cause they have load times. OF COURSE gaming on the Mega Drive will be faster. Is it a valid reason to not experience, oh I don't know, some of the best games of all time made after 1996?

And about the patch thing, you clearly don't game on the PS3 much (I never got why people complain about that. Just cancel the patching process if you like. I like it that it does stuff like that automatically)

[J T]

we are not saying that playing on consoles ain't faster. We're just saying that saying "I don't game on PC, I'm a 5 year old kid that can't wait 10 minutes before playing with his toy" is a lame point to make against PCs.

Now now, let's not get nasty. Of course, Niode is just playing devil's advocate here and could kick most of our asses here when it comes to PC knowledge. Just take a quick visit through the technical help section of this website and you'll see him dropping knowledge left and right.

And I don't think the point of a 10 minute install was ever a singular reason for not wanting to be a PC gamer, but one among many. Though I have a become a big fan of PC gaming in recent years, for a long time I simply avoided it because it seemed like too much effort. In fact, breaking into PC gaming is a pain in the ass. Here's a list of things that irk me about gaming on PC.

1. System requirements are confusing and are not a guarantee that your game will play. Seriously, is there any logic to the numbering system of video cards? Barely. I have an ATI Radeon HD 3450. I may see a system requirement that a game requires at least an NVIDIA GeForce 6800 or greater. There's nothing intuitively obvious about those labels that will let me know that my system can play the game. Understanding processor speeds is also confusing, especially with funky multi core set ups. Every time I buy a new game, even if I'm fairly confident it will work, there is still a part of it that feels like I am rolling the dice and just hoping it will start. Even some old games on gog won't run on my system. I can play Left 4 Dead 2 smoothly, but Blood is so choppy it's unplayable and I haven't figured out why the fuck that is. Which brings me to my next point...

2. Troubleshooting is a bitch. Generally PC installs go smoothly, but when they don't, you're going to have to spend an hour or more searching through various webpages and tinkering around with various settings hoping that you'll stumble across the magic trick that will finally let you play the damn game you paid for. Try asking questions on a forum and after you wade through 40 messages of people telling you that you are an idiot, their copy of the game works, and your PC specs suggest you have no right to affiliate yourself amongst the league of extraordinary PC gods (even though they're not telling you they just bought a Dell like everyone else), THEN you finally get to the help and you have 9 different solutions, a lot of which have no apparent reason why they work and have you doing risky shit fumbling around in your registry or something. You never know if you have some joker that's telling you to delete some important .dll file that keeps your PC running either. What's even more frusttraing is that half the time you find out that your game was borked simply because of the ....

3.) DRM. It’s easier and more widely understand how to pirate games on PC than console. For this fact we all must suffer. The most common tools of torture: Securom, Tages, or some implement of satan Ubisoft has spawned. There is a reason I’m constantly pimping out gog.com: I hate DRM. Seriously, with DRM the PC gaming industry has become that obnoxious coach that has decided that because a few kids were mouthing off in gym class that now everyone else needs to run 20 laps to make a point. I’m a PC gamer nerd-- By definition I hate gym class. Fuck your limited activations, disc checks, and online verifications. I bought the game fuckers!

4. Now let’s address the actual issue of Installing takes time, but more importantly it takes space. I can only fit a fraction of my collection on my harddrive. This is where that ten minute install kills you. I may want to play Street Fighter IV right now, but I recently deleted it off my hard drive to make space for Left 4 Dead 2. Now if I want to play SFIV, then I'm going to have to find something else to delete and wait for SFIV to install. If I was on console it would just be a matter of swapping discs. And finally…

5. I think I’ve made enough points, but I like lists of 5. Thanks for reading.


That being said, I still have more PC games than all other console games combined, so obviously I think it's worth it, but I still recognize the hassle of PC games.

[alienjesus]

Thank you JT, thats a pretty exact list of why I dont like PC gaming (you can throw in keyboard controls there too, I hate them - but mouse is fine.) I feel kinda insulted that I'm being compared to a 5 year old for not liking waiting for installs, but as I said before, it's one of many reasons. Of your list, System requirements confuse the hell out of me, and the sheer amount of space the games take annoys me. I dont want to have to buy giant hard drives or clear out the fridge everytime I buy new games.

DRM isn't an issue for me because I don't PC game, but I can't say it's encouraged me to give it a go.

This isn't to say that I dont want some games on PC either - but the games I do want a generally suited to a PC far more than a console - stuff like Sam & Max, Monkey island, Grim Fandango, Civilisation, Populous and Rome: Total War interests me, but modern games like mass effect i'd just prefer to play on a console for convenience, even if in some cases the PC game is considered to be a bit better.

[Ivo]

Some very valid reasons for avoiding PC gaming, but of course some very valid incentives as well. I don't think anything can be more valid than exclusives, but there are plenty of superior versions (even when they were ports). This has all been mentioned of course, but I'd still like to stress that if you are into original innovative games the PC is usually where those games are, as they are often developed by Indie studios.

Major props to the indies with novel ideas for gaming!

Ivo.

[ZeroAX]

Didn't mean to call anyone on this forum 5 years old. Was just talking about the general hate for PC gaming in mainstream gaming sites. Every time a story about PC gamers getting the middle finger came up (DRM, online activation, non dedicated server support) PC gamers would complain, and console gamers would make fun of them, and their main problem with pc gaming always seamed to be installing the game. AKA I don't actually have any experience with PC gaming, so I can only bring up this point against it.


I understand your arguments J T, and I agree with them (from an everyman's perspective. I know how to tell if a game will run on my PC or how to troubleshoot a game ).

But as those are 4 arguments. Not 1. And that 1 would actually be the weakest among them if we were talking about people with large enough hard drives.

And as I said, I know Niode is playing devil's advocate. There are plenty of things that make PC gaming a pain. But installing is very low on that list imo, and hardly worth debating about it.

To bring another example, it's like saying gaming on a console is a pain, cause the rest of the family wants to use the tv. Again true, hardly a reason to stay way from console gaming though, right?

[the7k]

Hmm... interesting list, but even as a kid I discovered that the best way around almost all of these issues is to simply play a demo of the game. I would often use PC Gamer, Maximum PC and various other magazines to try games before I buy them.

Too bad the day of the demo disc is far behind us.