You damn kids, Listen to your superiors!

[Hatta]

My advice is to drop out, take the GED, and go to community college.

Seriously? I hope you are joking.

Yes, I am absolutely serious. 90% of your time in HS is wasted with busy work. There's nothing you learn in HS that a reasonably intelligent person couldn't teach themselves in 1/10 of the time. Personally I didn't drop out, I finished my last year of HS through correspondence. But it wouldn't matter either way. You can get into a CC with GED, the associates will get you into a 4 year school. Once you have a degree, no one cares what happened in high school.

This is not the easy way out, CC is more work in less time, but the work is more worthwhile and stimulating. And you'll have a year or two of college out of the way by the time your friends are just graduating high school. Every reasonably intelligent, motivated student who is chafing against the authority structure in HS should do this.

[Hatta]

And you are surprised that you got suspended for yelling at the principal? If a superior is yelling at you, yelling back is a sure fire way to escalate the situation and make it worse for you.

I've got to say, I agree with this. Don't yell, laugh. That REALLY pisses them off.

[DerekG52]

And you are surprised that you got suspended for yelling at the principal? If a superior is yelling at you, yelling back is a sure fire way to escalate the situation and make it worse for you.

I think the fact that said superior "had" to yell to "show" authority is very classless and not deserving of much respect. The principal should have handled the situation much better, because the second you start yelling at someone, you are provoking them! It takes an extremely cool headed person to not get upset. The fact that the principal baited him, THEN tried to punish shows a real lowlife. It sounds like scenarios where police try to bait criminals by leaving unlocked cars with the keys in the ignition.

When you treat people with no respect, expect no respect in return.

Surprise, surprise, my favorite teachers throughout school and college were the ones who communicated well with students, understood their needs and desires, and made teaching fun! Also not surprising, those classes were the ones I got my best grades in.

[jp1]

My advice is to drop out, take the GED, and go to community college.

Seriously? I hope you are joking.

Yes, I am absolutely serious. 90% of your time in HS is wasted with busy work. There's nothing you learn in HS that a reasonably intelligent person couldn't teach themselves in 1/10 of the time. Personally I didn't drop out, I finished my last year of HS through correspondence. But it wouldn't matter either way. You can get into a CC with GED, the associates will get you into a 4 year school. Once you have a degree, no one cares what happened in high school.

This is not the easy way out, CC is more work in less time, but the work is more worthwhile and stimulating. And you'll have a year or two of college out of the way by the time your friends are just graduating high school. Every reasonably intelligent, motivated student who is chafing against the authority structure in HS should do this.

There are more things to learn in high school than academics. I don't think that quitting something because you are "chafing against the authority structure" will carry over too well later in life.

I know HS isn't a great experience for everyone but it has similarities to the real world that allow you to learn to deal with situations without having a detrimental impact on your life.

Take a stand over a dirty napkin in high school and get a week suspension without lunch. Do the same thing at your job and end up unemployed and possibly worse.

It is a ridiculous notion that ANY of this came about over the 10 seconds worth of work it would take to pick up a piece of garbage. But a suggestion to drop out of high school because of that is insane.

Sometimes you just have to be a man and suck it up.

[Hatta]

It takes a lot more responsibility to work your way through community college than to sit through high school. But in CC your teachers treat you as an adult whose time is valuable. And your job at least pays you to follow orders. You'll learn a lot more about the "real world" this way than in high school. It's not easier, but you get respected. That's worth it.

As for the week with no lunch, I'd just go ahead and eat it anyway. If they won't let you, go off campus and eat. What are they going to do, suspend you? Then you can eat all the lunch you want. Sickening that these people would value their authority more than your education.

[Ziggy]

School teachers and aids, etc (especially High School) are power hungry.

You only think this because it is part of their job description to tell you what to do (e.g. homework, class activities, safe comportment in the school, etc.). It seems that you have made the mistake of confusing "care for your future" with "desire to have power over a teenager". I really don't see the appeal in the latter, but the former is the reason that most teachers give as the reason they'd even consider getting into teaching.

First of all, I found your entire post to be completely insulting. And if that was the way you intended it to be, then I'm really glad you're happy with your life.

Don't tell me what I think. I am well aware that not all teachers are power hungry. From my experience, a great number of them are. So I can't see how telling a student to pick up trash is caring for their future.

Anyway, you seem to have grouped all teachers into one category. Generalizations will get you nowhere in an argument, which you'd know if you paid attention in school. I should have stopped reading your post at this point

Again, very insulting. First off, I'm well aware of what I said. Sorry, allow me to correct myself.... "A lot of school aids are power hungry." Does this work better for you?

Furthermore, I didn't know this was any argument. I thought it was a thread on a video game forum. I didn't know I was gonna be graded on this! More over, not only did I take debate in high school, but I got an A in it too.

You really SHOULD have stopped reading my post, if it pissed you off that much!

principles office

principles office

principle's office

the principle

You quickly confirmed that you obviously weren't paying attention in school...

You're right, I'm a fucking idiot. I didn't even get to high school, I dropped out way before that. It had nothing to do with the fact that I just got up and am not a morning type person. It also has nothing to do with the fact that I was typing very fast and didn't care to go over my post to proof read it. Feel free to rip this post apart as well!

I yelled right back at that bitch. She deserved worse. So eventually she told me I was getting suspended for a week!

And you are surprised that you got suspended for yelling at the principal?

Maybe if you bothered to actually READ my post you would know that I didn't actually get suspended. YOU quickly proved that you didn't pay attention in school, otherwise you would know that you should read something in it's entirety.

If a superior is yelling at you, yelling back is a sure fire way to escalate the situation and make it worse for you. Again, if you had paid attention in class you may have learned something about effective conflict management (even if the other person is mistaken, is the aggressor, etc.).

Sorry, I but they didn't teach this in high school. I guess this is why I'm such a bad person! (end sarcasm) It's just the type of person I am. When I feel strongly about something, some times I can't keep my mouth shut. I am fully aware of the short coming of these personal feature. Furthermore, I was 14 or 15 at the time. Can you blame a 15 year old for not knowing any better? What does a 15 year old know? Perhaps this was a defining moment in my life. Maybe I realized yelling is not the answer when I thought I was about to be suspended.

I guess the principle was embarrassed enough...My point is, she just came out yelling. She didn't even know why. She was just all about the yelling. Sound like your story, how that teacher was just yelling at you. You don't deserve it. It's bullshit! And I can't stress that enough.

Sorry, but you and DNT both come across in this thread as spoiled, entitled little snots. Even if that's not true, that is more or less how you've represented yourself. Are some high school teachers power hungry and unreasonable? Sure. But even if they are, their students are still of lower status by sheer title alone. Maybe it isn't "fair," but life isn't fair. Part of high school is learning how to effectively deal with this relationship and address the discrepancy in power when conflict arises, and you both seem to have failed that lesson.

OK, this is where I draw the line. Don't tell me students are lower status then teachers. Students are human beings and deserved to be treated as such. Granted, most high school kids are ass holes, but you have to treat ALL people with a certain level of respect. You are the one that comes off as a snot. Am I a spoiled, entitled little snot because I refuse to pick up trash that's not my own? Or because I refuse to eat next to a garbage can?

If you're wrong, you're WRONG. It doesn't matter who you are, or what title you have. It's not fair when a teacher or a police officer or what have you is wrong, but who gets to correct them? According to you, no one because of their title. According to you, some one gets to be write, even when they're wrong, because of their title. According to you, the teacher is always right and the student is always wrong. The world, according to you, sucks.

but at least I have my huge six figure salary to comfort me at night

I can't believe you were actually commenting on my character and then had the nerve to say something like this. Sounds to me like money and status are important to you in life, so I'm glad you're happy with yourself.

And I'm glad you think you're so smart, and so much smarter than me, but consider this: You commented on how I was generalizing but then you went ahead and generalized DTN and myself. Don't assume you know me, or know anything about me. I know exactly how smart, and not smart, I am. I know exactly what my flaws are, but I still view myself as a good person. I have strong morals, beliefs. I am very kind and thoughtful, and put others before myself. You, on the other hand, view me as some sort of stupid kid.

Admittedly, I can see how my previous post could have come off this way. But this doesn't give you the right to assume anything about me. I'm sure any one that habitually talks to me on this forum would read my last post and be able to deduct that I feel very strongly about this and was running my mouth a little. Again, I thought I was among friends. I didn't know my post was going to be ranked. And I wasn't even aware this was an argument.

I think the fact that said superior "had" to yell to "show" authority is very classless and not deserving of much respect. The principal should have handled the situation much better, because the second you start yelling at someone, you are provoking them! It takes an extremely cool headed person to not get upset. The fact that the principal baited him, THEN tried to punish shows a real lowlife. It sounds like scenarios where police try to bait criminals by leaving unlocked cars with the keys in the ignition.

When you treat people with no respect, expect no respect in return.

Thank you.

[dsheinem]

First of all, I found your entire post to be completely insulting. And if that was the way you intended it to be, then I'm really glad you're happy with your life.

It wasn't meant to be personally insulting, I was engaging your argument.

I am happy with my life, though. I'm glad you're glad.

"A lot of school aids are power hungry." Does this work better for you?

Not really, although it is a little less of a generalization.

Furthermore, I didn't know this was any argument. I thought it was a thread on a video game forum. I didn't know I was gonna be graded on this! More over, not only did I take debate in high school, but I got an A in it too.

Arguing and argument are not the same thing, as someone who got an A in debate should know.

It also has nothing to do with the fact that I was typing very fast and didn't care to go over my post to proof read it.

It was a cheap shot, fair enough. Ad hominem attacks end up nowhere, I agree.

Maybe if you bothered to actually READ my post you would know that I didn't actually get suspended.

As you told the story, you did get suspended at first but then someone explained the situation to her (calmly, I would guess) and rationality eventually won out.

OK, this is where I draw the line. Don't tell me students are lower status then teachers. Students are human beings and deserved to be treated as such. Granted, most high school kids are ass holes, but you have to treat ALL people with a certain level of respect.

All I said is that they are higher status in title. There is a power hierarchy in schools, and teachers are above students. Are they "morally superior" or something? No.

but at least I have my huge six figure salary to comfort me at night

I can't believe you were actually commenting on my character and then had the nerve to say something like this. Sounds to me like money and status are important to you in life, so I'm glad you're happy with yourself.

The "eye roll" and the comment at the end were meant to indicate that I was being sarcastic. I don't make six figures.

You went ahead and generalized DTN and myself. Don't assume you know me, or know anything about me...You, on the other hand, view me as some sort of stupid kid.

I don't. I said you were representing yourself that way. And you agree:

Admittedly, I can see how my previous post could have come off this way.

I hold nothing against you personally and usually read your posts with great interest. But when I see a faulty argument like the one you and some others have made in this thread (and since I have at least a tangential personal stake in the topic), I feel the need to point out its flaws.

[Ziggy]

Well, no argument was expressed or implied by my first post. I was merely saying (maybe a little colorfully) that I thought the OP's story was not fair and that something similar happen to me once.

[MrPopo]

Why make life difficult for yourself? There's a napkin on the ground, and the teacher asks you to throw it away. You have two choices:

1. Throw it away. Takes a few seconds of your life.
2. Get confrontational. Can lead to reprimands. Will likely lead to further confrontation in the future.

Why the hell would you EVER pick choice 2 for something so trivial? It's not like they were telling you to come in for volunteer work over the weekend. That is something worth fighting. But fighting it in principle? Not worth it.

[CRTGAMER]

Wrong to clean up after someone else. Right to want to help.
Do as told first, then tactfully mention was not your trash, so you won't have to clean again.
So why hang out the lunch area to get falsely tagged if you don't eat lunch?