The Wrestling Thread

[Raging Justice]

This recent Natsupoi/Starlight Kid pairing in Stardom has MJF/Adam Cole vibes



Funny I was talking about Unagi Sayaki before and someone posted this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/stardomjoshi/c ... mpionship/

DDT has taken the 24/7 title concept from WWE to the most insane extremes with the Ironman Heavymetalweight Championship. Literally any person or any THING can hold that title

DDT does some really stupid stuff, but they OWN it. Like, that's pretty much their brand. No one can deny that they have some serious talent in that promotion though, it's where AEW found Konosuke Takeshita after all

Marigold is already up and running. Rossy Ogawa doesn't waste time.



Will they reach Stardom's level? Will we see involvement between them and WWE? Time will tell, but Kairi has publicly stated that everyone in WWE is in support of Marigold, which is so interesting after hearing both Kenny Omega and Tony Kahn trash Rossy Ogawa. This match right here should be a banger, It's got two of Stardom's former top stars along with Sareee who everyone keeps raving about in the joshi scene



Here's a very interesting article about the breakdown between Ogawa and Stardom, with mentions of both WWE and AEW

https://tjrwrestling.net/news/stardom-t ... or-firing/

[Reprise]

They make some good points...

https://youtu.be/wQ6CAvWLsVY?si=yQtSdp0GZt2oT4MN

[Raging Justice]

They make some good points...

https://youtu.be/wQ6CAvWLsVY?si=yQtSdp0GZt2oT4MN

Maybe, but I feel like there is a massive gaslighting campaign in the pro wrestling industry against AEW right now. There's LOADS of things wrong with WWE right now, but everybody is laser focused on shitting on AEW right now. There's actually a groundswell of people online who are down on WWE and Cody Rhodes right now. I actually had a long post yesterday with a bunch of youtube links featuring people complaining about Cody and the state of things in WWE, but didn't actually post it because I felt like maybe I was complaining about WWE too much. There was also something going viral recently about how awful all of WWE's current entrance themes are. AEW has some bangers when it comes to entrance themes.

Both companies have problems right now, but somehow WWE is still being successful in spite of that, which makes me feel like I'm in bizarro world. I have followed WWE for much of my life and I can truthfully say that their product is NOT interesting right now, and Cody is the worst baby face I've ever seen in my life time (even worse than Cena and Roman Reigns). I miss the days of Hogan, Rock, Austin...hell, even Punk and Bryan in their WWE primes were hotter acts than Cody. The company also just came off of one of their worst drafts in history, (even the major wrestling websites had to admit that), they've made Damage Control into a joke, they are wasting LA Knight, they totally fucked up Chad Gable and have now forced themselves into a corner of having to turn him heel, they are wasting Tiffany Stratton in favor of trash like Jade Cargill, they've turned Seth Rollins into a joke, they've turned Drew McIntyre into a joke, they've made Damien Priest look like a tool by not cashing in on Cody, but it's like the company has cast some kind of spell on everyone. Their ratings are going up, that crowd for Backlash was hot, and everybody wants to nitpick every fucking thing about AEW right now while not saying a single, goddamn, negative thing about WWE other than the draft because the draft was so awful, no one can defend it. I don't get it. Everyone's acting like WWE is so great when their product has just as many problems as AEW, and frankly, AEW is STILL the more entertaining of the two and routinely DESTROYS WWE when it comes to pay per views. I can tell you with confidence that Double or Nothing will blow Backlash out of the water in every area except maybe the crowd, because those WWE sheep in France were LOUD.

Also, I don't agree with voices of wrestling on quite a few things. I think Christian is a more interesting first title defense than Ospreay because Christian is a great character and there's actually a story there. Putting Swerve and Ospreay together is basically just doing the Meltzer approach of "we want another 5 star match and don't care about telling a story". Also, you don't want to blow your wad too soon by going straight to the biggest potential match for Swerve in Ospreay. How exactly do you protect Ospreay? He's gonna have to lose that match since you just strapped Swerve. Do you want to end Ospreay's win streak already? Also, Okada/Omega is boring because outside of AEW we've seen that before. The hottest thing they COULD do with Okada right now is Hangman vs Okada. Why didn't they give Okada the title match? Because Okada already has a title. Should we DEVALUE that title by making it seem like Okada is not satisfied with it? Why did they give Christian a title shot? Because Christian is a goddam heel and the bucks are heels and Christian seems exactly like the type of guy would know how to negotiate a deal with our current heel EVPs. He's a smarmy, suit wearing, carny, jackass just like them. Why didn't they give Jack Perry a title shot? Too much too soon. Nobody actually wants to see Perry vs Swerve. Perry is not at that level yet. Right now Perry needs to be the annoying X-Pac/Dominik Mysterio character interfering in every match The Elite take part in (like Hangman vs Okada) and doing everything in his power to piss off crowds. Honestly, Sammy Guevarra could have been great in this role.

[Raging Justice]

I read a funny thread about how WWE debuted Tama Tonga with no vignette, video packages or anything. Here's a NJPW guy that the fans should already know. Where's the criticism? AEW gets shit on for this kind of thing all the time



WWE likes to copy AEW, but it's fine whenever WWE does something. I pointed out not long ago the finish to the Trick Williams/Ilya Dragonof NXT title match that was almost identical to the finish of Bryan/Ospreay, minus the hidden blade and tiger driver

[Raging Justice]

Jesus, this whole Rhonda Rousey, Drew Gulak, Triple H, Lucas Charpiot, Fightful, PWInsider situation just makes ALL of them look bad. Rhonda has been pissing off everyone lately with her constantly running her mouth taking shots at everyone in WWE now that they no longer sign her pay checks and the bitch fest that these so called "journalists" have had over a random comment from Triple H makes them look like insecure little children

2024 was the year that all wrestling "journalists", including Meltzer, were made to look like fools. God I miss when everything in wrestling was just kayfabe. The real life stuff from both wrestlers and dirtsheet people is just so embarrassing

Why can't everyone just act like the Japanese folk? They just wrestle, keep their kayfabe roles in check and don't make asses of themselves in press events and social media.

[Reprise]

Maybe, but I feel like there is a massive gaslighting campaign in the pro wrestling industry against AEW right now. There's LOADS of things wrong with WWE right now, but everybody is laser focused on shitting on AEW right now.

Yeah, this is true too and it often is done under the nauseating guise of "I just want AEW to succeed" whilst they proceed to trash everything about the company.

Most wrestling journalists and influencers (particularly the influencers... the youtubers and clickbait artists) don't know what they are talking about and greatly overestimate the importance of their opinions.

That said, I do think these guys made some good points. I don't agree with everything they say either and I also don't think they should pivot from original plans and just put the strap on Ospreay asap. It's dumb to just immediately blow your load and stick world titles on Mercedes, Ospreay or Okada by, like, last week. But with that said, I do worry that they are right that if they don't handle a lot of their big names like Ospreay carefully then they could cool off. Mercedes is already facing so much criticism (I hope that will change once she finally wrestles). I saw someone saying (haven't verified it myself) that recent clips of Mercedes uploaded on AEW's official channel are their least viewed videos in the last month and that is a bit worrying if true.

What I think AEW doesn't do too well is, to me at least, it feels like they aren't smooth in rising people up the card and transitioning people into the world title picture. It all feels very 'stop start' like they turn a tap on and off. There are exceptions to that rule of course, but for the most part it does seem like that is the case. Also, it feels like as soon as guys lose the world title, they just move on. We have seen Samoa Joe once since he dropped the title and it was just in a match. I am not saying he should win it back, but he should still somewhat be hungry for the title again and should want back what's "his".

WWE back in its prime always had a way of making the world title feel like the ultimate prize that EVERYONE wanted. They had a stacked main event scene with all their best wrestlers placed in that category, fighting and clawing their way to getting that title. And I do think AEW kinda lacks that. It doesn't necessarily mean you play hot potato with the title or that guys get buried, but too often in AEW, guys get one title shot, then lose and just forget about it and move down the card. Or guys hold the title, lose it and then just move onto other things. But if you look at WWE towards the end of the attitude era, you had guys like Mick Foley, Stone Cold, The Rock, Triple H, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Kane, The Undertaker, Kurt Angle all pretty consistently being after that world title or seamlessly moving between the upper mid card (and its titles) and the world title scene.

Jesus, this whole Rhonda Rousey, Drew Gulak, Triple H, Lucas Charpiot, Fightful, PWInsider situation just makes ALL of them look bad. Rhonda has been pissing off everyone lately with her constantly running her mouth taking shots at everyone in WWE now that they no longer sign her pay checks and the bitch fest that these so called "journalists" have had over a random comment from Triple H makes them look like insecure little children

2024 was the year that all wrestling "journalists", including Meltzer, were made to look like fools. God I miss when everything in wrestling was just kayfabe. The real life stuff from both wrestlers and dirtsheet people is just so embarrassing

Why can't everyone just act like the Japanese folk? They just wrestle, keep their kayfabe roles in check and don't make asses of themselves in press events and social media.

Meltzer is right about one thing. This situation proves what complete hypocrites fans and the "influencers" are.

If this had been Tony Khan making a flippant statement, naming and taking a shot at particular media outlets or journalists, then everyone would be having a meltdown right now. But because it's our glorious infallible WWE leader, Triple H, saying it, everyone loves it.

Of course, calling a lot of these guys journalists and treating them as serious outlets is silly. These aren't journalists uncovering huge scandals, investigating real issues and breaking real stories. These are gossip rags.

[Raging Justice]

Maybe, but I feel like there is a massive gaslighting campaign in the pro wrestling industry against AEW right now. There's LOADS of things wrong with WWE right now, but everybody is laser focused on shitting on AEW right now.

Yeah, this is true too and it often is done under the nauseating guise of "I just want AEW to succeed" whilst they proceed to trash everything about the company.

Most wrestling journalists and influencers (particularly the influencers... the youtubers and clickbait artists) don't know what they are talking about and greatly overestimate the importance of their opinions.

That said, I do think these guys made some good points. I don't agree with everything they say either and I also don't think they should pivot from original plans and just put the strap on Ospreay asap. It's dumb to just immediately blow your load and stick world titles on Mercedes, Ospreay or Okada by, like, last week. But with that said, I do worry that they are right that if they don't handle a lot of their big names like Ospreay carefully then they could cool off. Mercedes is already facing so much criticism (I hope that will change once she finally wrestles). I saw someone saying (haven't verified it myself) that recent clips of Mercedes uploaded on AEW's official channel are their least viewed videos in the last month and that is a bit worrying if true.

What I think AEW doesn't do too well is, to me at least, it feels like they aren't smooth in rising people up the card and transitioning people into the world title picture. It all feels very 'stop start' like they turn a tap on and off. There are exceptions to that rule of course, but for the most part it does seem like that is the case. Also, it feels like as soon as guys lose the world title, they just move on. We have seen Samoa Joe once since he dropped the title and it was just in a match. I am not saying he should win it back, but he should still somewhat be hungry for the title again and should want back what's "his".

WWE back in its prime always had a way of making the world title feel like the ultimate prize that EVERYONE wanted. They had a stacked main event scene with all their best wrestlers placed in that category, fighting and clawing their way to getting that title. And I do think AEW kinda lacks that. It doesn't necessarily mean you play hot potato with the title or that guys get buried, but too often in AEW, guys get one title shot, then lose and just forget about it and move down the card. Or guys hold the title, lose it and then just move onto other things. But if you look at WWE towards the end of the attitude era, you had guys like Mick Foley, Stone Cold, The Rock, Triple H, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Kane, The Undertaker, Kurt Angle all pretty consistently being after that world title or seamlessly moving between the upper mid card (and its titles) and the world title scene.

Jesus, this whole Rhonda Rousey, Drew Gulak, Triple H, Lucas Charpiot, Fightful, PWInsider situation just makes ALL of them look bad. Rhonda has been pissing off everyone lately with her constantly running her mouth taking shots at everyone in WWE now that they no longer sign her pay checks and the bitch fest that these so called "journalists" have had over a random comment from Triple H makes them look like insecure little children

2024 was the year that all wrestling "journalists", including Meltzer, were made to look like fools. God I miss when everything in wrestling was just kayfabe. The real life stuff from both wrestlers and dirtsheet people is just so embarrassing

Why can't everyone just act like the Japanese folk? They just wrestle, keep their kayfabe roles in check and don't make asses of themselves in press events and social media.

Meltzer is right about one thing. This situation proves what complete hypocrites fans and the "influencers" are.

If this had been Tony Khan making a flippant statement, naming and taking a shot at particular media outlets or journalists, then everyone would be having a meltdown right now. But because it's our glorious infallible WWE leader, Triple H, saying it, everyone loves it.

Of course, calling a lot of these guys journalists and treating them as serious outlets is silly. These aren't journalists uncovering huge scandals, investigating real issues and breaking real stories. These are gossip rags.

Yeah, there is a bit of a double standard with Triple H/Tony Kahn, though to be fair I wonder how much of that is due to how Tony Kahn presents himself. And yes, dirt sheets really are just glorified gossip rags. Like, that's literally what they do for a living. They dig up dirt and dirty laundry on people and think they deserve Pulitzer prizes. Plus, at least half of what they "report" ends up being fake news.

AEW did a good job of having tons of guys gunning for MJF, and I think Samoa Joe benefited from having both Swerve and Hangman coming for his title. AEW, Joe and Swerve really put in the effort to make the build to Swerve vs. Joe feel like a big deal, but I think the program lost a little something without Hangman being involved. I would have liked to see Swerve triumph over Joe AND Hangman for the title.

Will Ospreay is talking about AEW going to more locations internationally. I really like that idea. It seems like shows in other countries tend to have great crowds who are happy to see the promotion. It always brings a unique vibe when AEW or WWE do a show in another country, and it's also really fun seeing Japanese promotions in other countries too. I watch Japanese promotions from time to time like NJPW, Stardom, TJPW, and DDT (the big four IMO), but it feels very different when I see them in the US with an American crowd reacting to them. It's really fun

https://www.f4wonline.com/news/aew/will ... -the-world

Kofi gave a shot out to Swerve's title win, that was pretty cool.

https://www.f4wonline.com/news/wwe/kofi ... ess-in-aew

Though I do find it funny that whenever we discuss Kofimania we have to pretend like his humiliating squash match title defense against Brock Lesnar never happened. In a similar vein, I think WWE is STILL apologizing to Bianca Belair for her similarly humiliating squash match title defense years ago against Becky Lynch to this very day, as Bianca is the most protected woman on the roster now. When you watch those moments now it's like, what the hell was WWE thinking? It's bad enough to do this to ANYONE, but having it be white wrestlers squashing black wrestlers obviously brought up the race issue and brought them a lot of negative press

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG75bcKtjPI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75enQB8mkfE

I have to be honest though, I wish someone would squash Timeless Toni Storm like this just to send a message to the world that the AEW Women's title is no longer a joke. I'm serious. I would actually book her title loss this way if I was Tony Kahn and I really wouldn't give a shit about who it would piss off. The tiny niche of people who love this gimmick could fuck right off as far as I'm concerned. The person who beat her would then be booked strong for several months

[Raging Justice]

Starlight Kid doing the Cosmic Angel dance for the first time, it's going to be weird if she DOESN'T join the group at this point. She's another great talent I'd like to see perform in AEW or ROH at some point. She's literally the only girl in Stardom who wears a mask, which is unusual. No one's seen her face. Imagine a company having just literally one luchador. I'm not even sure if it's accurate to call her that since Japan has a history of mask wearing people too, it's not just Mexico. Though it seems much more deeply ingrained into Mexican pro wrestling culture



So Meltzer has lost a lot of credibility of late, and perhaps the same can be said of his star ratings. I now feel that cagematch has lost all credibility as well. I certainly can't take them seriously after this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/ ... stlemania/

I love when people remind everyone of what a hypocrite CM Punk is:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/ ... criticism/

Fightful is teasing some kind of scoop regarding Lucha Underground:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/ ... und_scoop/

What's this all about?:

[Raging Justice]

I was reading a review of Backlash on voices of wrestling, which judging by the review was a pretty *meh* show. I thought something interesting was what he said about Jade Cargill:

"I want to bring up a point about Jade here. This show happened on May 4th. In the preceding year, Jade Cargill had wrestled as many televised matches for AEW as she had for WWE, and she signed with WWE in October. It is wild how the conversation around Jade was that WWE would present her like a star in a way that only they can, when the reality is that AEW presented her just as well as WWE has. Her WWE presentation is the exact same as her AEW presentation, down to a soundalike of her AEW theme, and AEW put her in the ring and on-screen far more often when rolling her out. Hell, WWE didn’t even put Jade in the ring on house shows, only starting those after Wrestlemania. If WWE wanted Jade to be a marquee player, they failed themselves by not getting her the reps she’s always needed."

So to sum all that up, Jade Cargill is still Jade Cargill. Also, WWE is very overrated in regards to how they supposedly handle talent better than AEW does. I look forward to the day that the industry as a whole gets over Jade Cargill. At some point she'll be a nobody in TNA or MLW, or maybe doing indie shows though she obviously can't handle the work rate on the indie scene so I don't see that working for her. It's WWE though, where you don't have to be talented or deserving to make it, so maybe she'll be fine after all

Seems like that was the worst match, but it doesn't seem like any of the matches were great

[Reprise]

So Meltzer has lost a lot of credibility of late, and perhaps the same can be said of his star ratings. I now feel that cagematch has lost all credibility as well. I certainly can't take them seriously after this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/ ... stlemania/

I actually don't mind Cagematch so much, because it's a user rated metric for wrestling events, shows and matches. It's like Sputnikmusic, Rateyourmusic, and the user rated section of Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic, but for wrestling matches. And there's nothing else like that out there for wrestling. I am a nerd who loves that kind of thing.

That said, yeah, I agree that some of the ratings that occur on Cagematch are kinda wack.

Meltzer's ratings have been really weird for a while now. People say he's biased in favour of AEW, because he hands out loads of stars to them like they're candy. I agree that he does and it is definitely noticeable with AEW, but I also think he has been really generous with WWE matches too lately, but just because he does the classic thing of giving.a WWE match 4.5 or 4.75 stars, WWE fanboys think he is throwing shade by not awarding 5 stars to them, when most of the time, those 4 point something stars are actually generous.

Fightful is teasing some kind of scoop regarding Lucha Underground:

There was something that came out recently about attempts to bring Luchs Underground back, but that they fell through. Perhaps it's related to that. It would be interesting if they found a way to bring it back, even if just for some kind of short revival.

What's this all about?:

Kenny announcing a kayfabe retirement?

I don't know tbh. I know some people want it to be some kind of surprise announcement that he will soon be cleared for an in-ring return, but I can't see it. He just had surgery, I think.

So to sum all that up, Jade Cargill is still Jade Cargill.

I can't remember where I saw it, but someone made a GIF of a side-by-side shot of her pulling off identical moves on AEW and at Backlash and they're literally identical, down to some really awkward and stiff moments and transitions.

Speaking of Jade and people thinking the grass is greener over at WWE right now, there's rumours swirling again that Ricky Starks might be heading that way soon, as he's currently off TV (and according to Starks, not injured) and his contract is thought to expire next month.